[02:54:35] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o purpletarget|ktns' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [05:31:07] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [06:26:38] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+v Hikaru' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [09:02:10] xcom on sale. Now I'll see what that's all about :) [12:05:35] oof... [12:05:46] . [12:05:55] Did she died? [12:06:08] -d [12:06:17] who died? [12:06:20] died died died died [12:06:25] chub-corde flight to north pole and back... mach 3.25 180 degree turn.. turned out more like 215 degree turn cuz of how stupid wide it went [12:07:15] a bit of fuel to spare on landing but ugh.. really loves soaking up runway space on braking [12:08:17] Has anyone landed an airplane on Duna normally? [12:08:22] yes [12:08:31] since the duna atmosphere nerf it is quite hard [12:09:11] have to try it at lowest altitudes, and possibly using parachuts to slow down [12:09:29] Slow after touchdown? [12:09:43] no, right before touching down [12:09:57] other method would include some secondary engines pointing down to substitute for lift as you are slowing down [12:10:07] the problem is you have some lift above 100 m/s [12:10:12] but it is impossible to land with that [12:10:31] glider wings probably wouldn't help huh? [12:11:01] actually with the new robotics you could unfold huge wings [12:11:27] or as with older versions you can just stack a lot of wings [12:11:30] I'm after a typical landing. Just aerodynamic lift. [12:11:55] then you have to slow down in the air and simply fall down from around 1 m [12:11:56] not been to duna myself yet.. chances of finding terrain level enough for landing/take off though? [12:12:10] the low altitude arease are relatively flat [12:12:22] but still bumpy enough to kill you abouve 50 [12:12:55] woulda thought lower gravity be a bit of a bonus.. guess atmos still pretty low to make it help [12:13:04] JVFoxy: The plains are soft hills. [12:14:23] soft is good.. I just know with some of the planetary modeling they used, tends to give things a bit of a sudden edge terrain wise [12:14:28] I wonder if I could assemble an airplane in orbit with docks. [12:14:55] can be done but not recommended [12:14:57] Don't have DLC. [12:14:59] speaking of planes, which mod had the auto pilot that locked attitude with the horizon, not with the universe? [12:15:14] mechjeb? [12:15:32] pilot assistant? [12:15:44] ah ya.. was probably pilot assist [12:16:10] going mach 3.. plane tends to like pitching up pretty fast with normal SAS [12:18:44] I tried flying constant altitude with trim and without SAS. I think weight loss due to using up fuel spoiled it and maybe there was some pitch cycling, too. [12:19:01] phugoid movement [12:19:06] mhm [12:19:15] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phugoid [12:19:41] I heard about that from one plane accident. [12:19:51] lost all hydraulics. [12:20:02] due to engine explosion. [12:20:03] huh.. ckan doens't have pilot assist, but has something called atmosphere autopilot(flybywire) [12:20:35] JVFoxy: MJ can set attitude, IIRC. [12:20:40] ah [12:20:46] maybe poke it later [12:21:01] 2 quite famous all hydraulic accidents come into mind, united airlines 232 and japan arlines 123 [12:21:41] just a little bothered by the fact my phat-corde, most of the fuel is in hte aft section. I mean it can land ok, just high speed. I tried adding tanks along the body so I could shift weight around, may have added too much drag [12:23:05] something that isn't paper thin wings that can hold some fuel, would be a little nice.. [12:23:23] I think it was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232 [12:42:49] chub-corde... kind of crazy this thing even makes it up to a little past mach 3 on just 4 whiplash engines. fueled weight is 90tons, less fuel is 60 [12:42:50] https://imgur.com/a/WUmsMPK [12:43:15] huge wings [12:43:45] and because of the tiling it is bothersome to assemble a wing like this. for a plane this size i would have just slapped on the biggest wings [12:45:27] Althego the S Wings from the shuttle? [12:45:36] no that is small [12:45:40] the airliner wing [12:47:30] I usually saw those things more for slower sub-sonic type craft. I would have still needed to built up around it and probably more of a pain to work with. [12:48:22] I've also found, the big airline wings tend to be a bit more fragile, snapping off on landing if not set right [12:48:29] i flew around kerbin with those wings in an hour or so [12:49:45] guess.. would have to depend on the design one goes with. I wasn't trying to replicate concorde exactly. Just something of an urge to do a fast jet that was sorta along samelines [12:50:41] it'll cruise ok 19-20km up, 1100m/s or so [12:53:46] one test I did, fly to north pole, come back fast I could... I probably should have landed, turned 180, taken off again. Or slowed down or something. A bit of a pig to get to turn [12:54:16] then again, how many miles radius a turn did the sr-71 had to do for a turn? [12:54:34] hehe [12:54:56] but probably more because of aero stress and g forces than the lack of control [12:55:19] at least high up i usually dont have much control authority [12:58:21] lack of air higher up... people brag, higher up, list resistance, fly more efficient. True, but probably if you just going in a straight line [12:58:33] list.. less oof [13:01:01] was just weird for me, not used to such wide turns up at the pole. I knew, flying by it, it'll yank your camera around.. I got done going around, KSC at that point was 90 degrees. got back up to speed, still pulled camera around, KSC eventually settled down around the 140 heading or so [13:01:57] you could have just locked the camera to the plane [13:02:01] (v) [13:08:25] lol.. maybe, given how much I've been flying up there lately.. [13:09:03] set view point somewhere on tail, make like someone's go-pro was mounted there [13:09:09] i usually press v when i want to press c. otherwise doesnt see much use [13:09:19] there is a mod for that [13:09:44] you can see that in action in many kerbal videos [13:09:55] for cinematic shots [13:12:35] what do you do if hydraulics fail? get someone out there to flap the wings manually? [13:12:54] there is a meme for this [13:13:06] why wouldn't there be... [13:13:23] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U7rOUSvYM8 [13:13:24] YouTube - The Last Starfighter - We Die [13:14:16] technically you can steer with the engines but around impossible to land that way [13:15:12] I've smached wrong key sometimes too. Caused a failure and had to restart session. Oh the joys of being a touch typer [13:15:20] thrust on both: go up, thrust on one: go the other direction. you lost speed control because of this, and no flaps because of loss of hydraulics [13:16:08] trouble is.. engine lag [13:16:14] that too [13:16:24] just have to account for it.. [13:16:29] this looks better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GROPlRul-2U [13:16:29] YouTube - The Last Starfighter - we die [13:17:02] also: what a small moon [13:17:08] actually, as a result of that accident and a few other cases, they did develope a system that helps control engines in the event of some control failures though [13:17:14] yes [13:17:17] and it is potional [13:17:22] so basically no aircraft has it [13:18:00] its.. what? [13:18:14] a potion. you drink it. [13:18:16] no regulation for it, and probably costs extra [13:18:20] optional [13:19:13] given how everything's fly by wire these days, I wouldn't be surprised if its just a bit of software now [13:19:25] there is one exception, a-10 has real manual control in case hydraulics fail [13:19:34] ... beause software is so flawless nowadays? [13:19:42] hahaha [13:19:59] like with the 7373 max or what is its name? [13:20:18] ... also, in areas like this i imagine they charge premium prices for optional software [13:20:48] or there was a case with engine control software where you had to reboot the aircraft to avoid to avoid reset and shotdown on all engines at the same time [13:21:05] at least until the patch was out [13:21:32] or when f22 computer rebooted when it crossed the international date line [13:21:32] there was a thing where you had to reboot the plane every 49 days to avoid a timer overflow [13:21:38] yes, taht [13:22:15] (if you count up every millisecond, after 49 days the 32-bit integer will overflow. is a fairly common bug) [13:22:38] similar happened to radar system of an airport too :) [13:22:54] absolutely not funny. that not only endangers one, but many planes [13:23:55] loads of windows versions would just crash if it stayed on for 49 days [13:24:09] not even windows 2000 did that [13:24:29] maybe vista, i dont know :) [13:24:39] i skipped vista and 8 [13:25:18] https://www.cnet.com/news/windows-may-crash-after-49-7-days/ [13:25:26] ah... originally they tried to model the control system, using thrust to direct the flight of a plane. But it was with 'perfect models'. They've since more properly modeled things and have had success with the control system. The system is used, but its a bit of a rarity [13:25:45] 95 and 98, it was 20 years ago [13:26:16] today you would obviously makethe control loop self tune [13:26:39] also because in case of hydraulics fail you probbly have severe damage to the fuselage too [13:27:18] Althego: what makes you assume planes run on windows versions that are less than 20 years old? :p [13:27:31] I find it interesting they used the AGC to fly the X-29's flyby wire. Using it in DSV rescue ships makes a bit of sense. Its kind of close to floating in space [13:27:36] some windows version do run on planes [13:27:44] not in the main area [13:28:05] like the scotty satcom in ch-53 runs xp [13:28:14] there was a problem in paris, i think, where they couldn't find anyone to maintain their win 3.1 computers and had to shut down the tower [13:28:28] lol 3.1 [13:28:46] video screens in our trainstations uses windows... sometimes you'll see an execption error and blue screen [13:28:59] ... and that was like 2 years ago [13:29:59] 3.11 but only just.. school systems [13:30:09] ah good old days [13:30:14] when you could exit from windows [13:30:19] progman.ini [13:30:20] otherwise.. was just DOS and GWBASIC [13:30:21] winlogo.bmp [13:30:46] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/11/failed-windows-3-1-system-blamed-for-taking-out-paris-airport/ [13:31:40] Hmm.. so not Die Hard 2.. [13:34:10] so.. can't find someone who knows how to work windows 3.1... [13:34:17] i do :) [13:34:32] isn't it like.. less complicated than Win10? [13:34:37] it cant be that hard, it is not cobol [13:34:55] how old would you have to be to understand Windows 3.1? [13:35:07] in areas like this you must also show a paper that you have been trained to maintain this system [13:35:17] don't think it has to do with age.. more the 'its old, I won't touch it because I don't wanna'. :\ [13:35:31] there are books on win 3.1 lol [13:36:04] ... i think they had like 3 people who were qualified, but they were all occupied, on holiday, sick, or whatever [13:36:08] we have clients who still run debian wheezy [13:36:29] even getting rid of 32 bit builds is far in the future [13:36:42] granted, its tied in with some airport systems. So, my guess is, probably some site specifics going on too. Probably gotta do some familiarization that aren't on the books [13:36:59] but that is true for everything [13:37:31] if they are afraid of computers they should just work in some other area [13:38:04] ugh... job I had, only person who knew how to run a machine. The other people had no interest. So... guess who had problems finding time off? [13:39:03] hold up a piece of paper, say diplomatic immunity, and walk away to your holiday [13:39:30] at this moment, I can recall at least two times vacation was nulled. Called me a day before my time off, "your coming back in tomorrow, got a big order come in, need help" the other, 'can't give you two weeks off, can't have you gone that long'. :\ [13:39:49] that is management failure [13:40:09] that's putting it lightly [13:40:17] ... there's probably laws against that in europe [13:40:24] actually [13:40:24] far more things going on than just that.. [13:40:54] some part of the paid vacation days is controlled by the company [13:41:09] so they can say you can or must have a vacation [13:41:09] they were more concerned with keeping customers, was willing to loose money over it [13:41:20] *cant [13:42:19] six months advanced noticed.. check done that. cancelled your two weeks off last minute jsut to fill an order that took 12 days straight. Oh and by the way, sorry, you get only 2 day soff then back to the grind for another year. [13:43:25] anwyays, sorry, I shouldn't gripe. too early in morning and wrong place here for it [13:44:10] at one point i was going with around 45 days of accumulated vacation days and 15 days of overtime (that i could zero by not working) [13:44:27] only theoretically, never enough free time [13:44:31] Althego: A-10 [13:44:33] to leave for that long [13:44:34] F-22 [13:44:37] yes [13:44:50] but i didnt say museum or aluminium :) [13:45:28] the F-22 shutdown incident still didnt result in a loss of hull [13:45:34] true [13:45:37] but that was not the point [13:45:52] the point was that everything is full of computers and the compputers are full of bugs [13:45:56] remember hte story, pilot ejected, plane landed itself, in a field, engine still running [13:46:24] still must have been expensive. the ejections wrecks the cockpit [13:46:43] the control systems were on a separate system [13:46:53] they were unaffected by the dateline crashes [13:47:12] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornfield_Bomber [13:47:58] JVFoxy: I'll give u 3 guesses where that plane is today [13:49:29] Althego: the skin damage prolly cost more than the seat damage [13:51:16] Rokker: trick question? [13:58:13] JVFoxy: you haven't been here for very long, right? [13:58:59] it must be at the m-u-s-e-u-m [13:59:06] JVFoxy: if I ask you where a plane is there is only one answer [13:59:28] Eddi|zuHause: wanna help him out? [13:59:32] Upon its retirement, it was presented to the National Museum of the United States Air Force in August 1986, where it remains on display.[1][5] [13:59:33] nah [13:59:42] spoilers! [13:59:50] lo and behold there it is [14:01:30] Althego: I kind of figured... why I wasn't really caring to answer [14:06:07] anyways [14:06:21] I bought tickets to ride in a B-24 [14:11:07] Rokker: cool! Hope it goes well [15:04:05] https://twitter.com/EelectricMiguel [15:04:10] yes tweeting fish [17:30:55] My Duna glider made Kerbin orbit nicely: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot286.png [17:31:38] Will be grabbed and shoved to Duna :). [17:32:00] luckily it will be nearly empty when it gets to duna [17:32:40] It is an empty hull. The body are two structural fuselages. [17:32:59] i hope your wheels are far apart [17:33:12] Kerbin ground stall speed is about 12 m/s :). [17:33:35] You can see them at the middle of the second wing section. [17:33:43] how does it behave at 25 km? [17:33:52] that is mroe like on duna [17:33:59] I take off at 30 m/s. [17:34:24] On Kerbins runway. [17:34:38] i am skeptical about it [17:34:41] But that's with the engine and tanks. [17:34:46] but it is qute light [17:36:09] No heat issue with Kerbin reentry. [17:36:22] If I pull up in time. [17:36:34] heat is not an issue on dun [17:36:35] a [17:36:38] no [17:37:17] back in the old days before the heat [17:37:31] i made a dual duna glider thing [17:37:49] dual because i could have it symmetrical to have less issues with the wings during ascent [17:37:59] also gave me 2 spots to land on duna [17:38:32] those thngs were really lightweight, made of cubic octagonal struts [17:38:58] and 2 pairs of wings [17:39:02] the atmosphere qwas also denser [17:39:23] i built those 3 times because of the missing reroot feature [17:49:25] hey everyone what do you think of my texture decompression accidental art https://imgur.com/a/8sKvkL4 [17:49:57] whaaa, imgur jpegged it [17:50:11] hehe [17:52:04] I'm still amazed that I got GIMP to load the python script on the 5th attempt and that all coordinates were correct except for the x axis being swapped in each 4x4 block on the first try [17:54:26] ...and I know why the color interpolation doesn't work. can't get inbetween colors by just averaging the 16-bit (R5G6B5) raw integer value [17:55:08] but the result was too psychedelic not to share :P [18:20:35] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [19:19:34] Last message repeated 1 time(s). [19:19:34] yes, scott with the mouth intro again [19:30:17] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptor' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [20:38:41] Action: darsie grabbed the Duna glider in Kerbin orbit: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot288.png [20:57:53] And I'm running on monopropellant. [21:59:29] More parts survived the second landing attempt :). [21:59:45] I tracked over two hills. [22:09:58] It's hard. [22:24:12] Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing :) http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot288.png But there's nobody to walk away ... [22:38:58] very bouncy, that ground [22:54:45] I suspect the simulation is faulty. The gear doesn't roll properly. [22:55:46] Hmm, I could try landing with the gear retracted. [22:56:19] Action: darsie restarts KSP. [23:28:04] I must land uphill to be slower. [23:52:55] First successful landing. Not pretty, though. [23:53:16] Flew over the hill instead of landing uphill.