[02:31:26] https://media.giphy.com/media/BL4WUC94giJPZrO6Ta/giphy.gif [06:48:51] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj9BncsgvuQ [06:49:04] what, no bot? [06:49:31] bot said something about pay and left [06:49:56] hehe [06:50:40] i guess if bots are now taxed, they somehow deserve to get a raise [06:52:48] naturally paid in clock cycles [06:54:28] my prediction for this "online tax" thing is, that it's like in india when they started to demand taxes be paid in real moneay, and everyone had to switch to growing cash crops, nobody grew any food anymore and so all were starving [07:31:29] hah at least it's business time has a launch date again, less than a week [07:31:39] took them long enough [07:31:49] it is long overdue [07:39:27] the ceo is annoying with all his "yep" [07:43:12] i think i'm glad i have no clue what you're talking about [07:43:49] the youtube video i linked. evreyday astronaut's 1 hour interview with the ceo of rocketlabs [07:45:37] yeah, i didn't watch that [07:56:28] "Sawkoban"... somehow only half of that title makes it sound intriguing to me [08:13:17] hehe there is part around 50 minutes where a woman is talking, and i cant understand it because of the reverb and accent [08:13:25] no subtitles generated [09:42:14] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUlRavyDP6o [09:42:45] this was funny. didnt expect a clip from postmodern jukebox [10:03:27] Althego: but the singer... he sings good, but I'm missing something there :/ [10:49:59] yeah, he's not nearly playing enough bass [10:50:47] i'm pretty sure i had that same complaint when i first watched it [10:58:53] Eddi|zuHause: in his voice. He doesn't have the range to sing it [10:58:58] it feels muffled [11:00:08] heh i just thought it had a funny clip, which is not typical for pmj. and you hop in to the music critic persona [11:01:03] here's something that will play you some bass: https://www.amazon.com/Gemmy-Inflateables-Holiday-G08-47957/dp/B00OW8GLRM/ [11:20:11] Althego: waaaaiiitttt! :D [11:20:26] Althego: It's not bad, I just missed something in his voice [11:20:35] that'd move me [11:20:54] That's what I was missing. It's a good video nonetheless [11:21:24] honestly i never understood why people love africa so much, and why there are so many covers of it. but it was a funny clip, that is all [11:22:31] and i am always waiting. for something. current wait is it's business time, then insight landing, then new horizons flyby [11:37:10] why wouldn't you love africa? [11:37:21] it is a good song [11:37:49] it has a really memorable riff [12:02:16] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o APlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [12:10:26] there are much better songs than africa. It's not about loving, it's about having it heard to often [12:11:27] my 3d printed is making a similar ringing sound to my doorbell sometimes and it is weirding me out [12:11:43] hehe [12:14:14] kinda triggers my social anxiety too because I don't like answering the doorbell [12:16:15] only one solution there: turn off the doorbell [12:16:24] kill all people? :) [12:16:28] but im expecting a delivery [12:16:40] well,t he delivery will probs come when im not home anyways [12:18:56] how will a delivery get to you on a sunday, anyway? [12:19:12] slave labor [12:19:41] "I always sleep with a gun under my pillow, so if anyone breaks into my house, I can shoot myself and avoid social contact" [12:19:51] hehehe [12:20:11] eh, not yet [12:20:13] dont be afraid of people, they are more aafrad of you [12:20:30] no im more afraid [12:20:34] but im working on that [12:20:43] I ordered a trumpet so I can doot doot peoples away [12:21:09] wear a bomb lookalike and answer the door with allah akbar [12:21:29] why wear a fake bomb when I can wear a real one [12:21:40] No, just have your trumpet nearby and if the doorbell rings, ring back [12:21:52] how do you ring with a trumpet? [12:22:05] I for one enjoy waiting for people knock at the door, and then I knock back on the other side :P [12:22:12] because the point is to make the people afraid, not to blow anyone up [12:22:52] finding the interval that your doorbell makes is a nice beginner excercise for learning trumpet :p [12:23:15] but it rings, it doesn't doot [12:23:31] close enough :p [12:25:36] in some sporadic circumstances i'm in a not-awake-enough state that my brain makes me think i heard the doorbell, even though it didn't ring [12:32:27] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o BPlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [15:17:38] Last message repeated 1 time(s). [15:17:38] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o APlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [15:33:47] what mods should i get [15:33:57] kerbin side [15:34:26] not on ckan so cba [15:34:29] anything ele [15:34:31] else [18:12:16] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+v eriophora' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [18:44:10] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o BPlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [19:34:55] I will need to look at legal stuff because idk if im supposed to ask someone for rights if I want to sell WWII planes [19:35:22] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [19:35:35] they might be free of rights but there is one I want to do that was made by dassault [19:35:36] hwhw [19:35:41] you are not selling ww2 planes [19:35:43] before he was dassault that is [19:35:51] you are selling rc models of ww2 planes [19:35:54] I will be, rc models that is [19:35:55] yeah [19:36:15] different, the planes were weapons, rc planes are not [19:37:05] yeah but I need to know if someone still owns the rights of the planes [19:37:20] that is interesting [19:38:10] i know that erich hartmann's family hold the right to his depictions, but i dont know how the planes work [19:38:45] and im pretty sure if I ask the yakovlev or dassault directly they will be like "yeah give us money" [19:38:57] hehe [19:39:24] copyright on shapes and designs is a difficult topic [19:39:33] yes this is just the shape [19:39:43] you have different build, propulsion, control, etc [19:40:12] or rather maybe the usage of the name is more problematic [19:40:18] "just the shape" might be enough to shut you down and drown you in legal battles for a decade [19:41:15] there is already plenty of bootleg brands that fo [19:41:22] do WWII planes and they seem to be fine [19:41:23] (presumably most of the people who designed this haven't been dead for 70 years yet) [19:41:33] probably [19:41:46] and even that is only eu law [19:42:03] Unless they died in WW2 [19:42:13] i'm pretty sure we're speaking about EU law here [19:42:14] Planes would mostly be works for hire, right? [19:42:24] In which case, they have been dead for more than 70 years [19:42:33] So like 95 years since 'publication' [19:42:50] UmbralRaptop: that doesn't make them exempt from the life+70 years rule, i think [19:43:19] UmbralRaptop: and WWII was still less than 95 years ago [19:44:28] yeah, my point being that BMW, Dassault, MHI, LockMart, etc all still have IP protections. [19:45:10] UmbralRaptop: i don't know about french law, but i believe in german law "work for hire" just means the hire-rer gets an unlimited license. everything else is still attached to the original author (who must be a real human, not a "legal person" (company)) [19:45:25] Not sure if the way a plane looks counts as intellectual property of the patent holder [19:46:02] Action: UmbralRaptop was under the impression that US and EU law now gave all-everything to the hirer [19:46:18] Action: JVFoxy ughs... pausing a session.. then getting back to it later, forgetting what was doing in... [19:46:20] I mean, could I just build a brick house, patent it and bam! Nobody is allowed to build brick houses without paying me a license fee? [19:46:35] im currently making a plane where both designers are probably dead and the original company was merged with another that also doesn't exist anymore [19:46:40] BPlayer: I feel like this would involve a lawsuit that gets into aesthetics vs airfoil details o_O [19:47:04] if shape is this binding, how is it that the tail rotor configuration of helicopters is used by most companies? [19:47:11] BPlayer: patent ("how to do it") and design ("how it looks") are covered by different laws [19:47:33] Action: BPlayer does not study law, fortunately :P [19:47:46] hehe, who wants to do that anyway [19:48:41] You know those memes, "how it feels like to read other people's code"... "How it feels like to discuss laws". Everything that applies to the former also applies to the latter. [19:52:45] there are airfoil types... not sure anyone can really put a claim on a fundamental design. 'oh.. I wanna patent how wood framing is used in house building.' >_> [19:53:32] Action: UmbralRaptop is under the impression that those patents are common on any new field. [19:54:27] but we're not talking about patents here, because any WWII patents would have run out a long time ago [19:55:17] we're talking about copyright on design (basically any non-functional shapes, colours, ...) [19:55:42] then again.. I know very little on patents... one of the things they taught in ground school is, airfoils have a type number which represents a number of aspects of that foil [19:58:27] Hopefully it's an airfoil published by the NACA, so there's no copyright problem. [20:02:10] had a talk about copyright stuff... think something computer related. One country, have to have a patent in that country or its not valid or they don't consider it valid.. [20:03:00] ... pardon, not totally awake... a country won't consider the copyright valid unless you also have on in that country.. person said it was somewhere in Europe.. [20:03:32] you're not making any sense [20:04:10] again, patents and copyright work totally different [20:04:18] Not enough sense was made to comprehend the statement [20:06:30] then forget it... did say not fully awake. last night was just ... crap [20:07:06] No worries, I was just playing with the word. Not really following the discussion anyway. ;-) [20:09:46] ... and it gets even more complicated if you also open the "trademark" can of worms [20:10:17] everyone is just in it for money, one way or another, how I look at it [20:24:15] that quit msg [20:24:45] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+v erio' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [20:25:00] eh I like mine better [20:25:16] which is? [20:25:19] If you say plz because it is shorter than please, I will say no because it is shorter than yes. [20:25:37] still cant beat red5 :) [20:25:43] yeah? [20:27:25] aw, i missed the quit message because the person hasn't said anything in the last 24h [20:27:46] <-- CaptainN has quit (Quit: I have to pee!) [20:28:35] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+v Guest41360' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [21:08:01] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/485427078964183070/508749246002888714/DSC_0198.JPG [21:08:11] landing gears are in [21:08:32] also my room is a total mess [21:09:22] that cover doesn't seem too aerodynamic [21:09:35] In German we say "This room looks like it was hit by a bomb" [21:09:44] :P [21:10:00] i never heard anyone say that... [21:10:07] the doors are actually the exact same shape as the bottom on the wing [21:11:17] the term "wie bei Hempels unterm Sofa" [like at Hempel's under the sofa] might sound a bit old-fashioned nowadays [21:15:39] Eddi: Are you from the far North or something? :-) [21:17:22] also the flaps go to 45° and 90° [21:17:29] for maximum drag [21:19:59] Parachutes might generate more drag :-) [21:20:35] BPlayer: no, i'm from the east. [21:20:37] well the 45° one should be nice for tight turns and flying slow, the 90° one will be more for landing [21:20:39] which makes sense [21:21:33] Eddi: In the South, or at least in the social environment I live in, we sometimes say "Hier sieht es aus, als haette eine Bombe eingeschlagen" [21:21:57] Which means that the mess is about comparable to what would be left behind after an explosion [21:22:16] BPlayer: i would understand that, but i can't think of a situation where someone actually used that line on me (and my rooms always look messy.) [21:23:06] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+v eriophora' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [21:23:24] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/485427078964183070/508753106004213761/DSC_0199.JPG [21:33:49] Sons and daughters of Kerbin: Waaagh? Waaagh nevah changes. [21:36:35] Since da' dawn of orkykind, when de' brain boyz first discoved da' killiness of choppas n' shootas, hedz' hav been crumped in da' name of everythin: From Gork n' Mork, fer' teef, to simple n' good fun. [21:38:04] New 40K game? [21:38:38] I have to come up for something every time I login, so that was it. [21:38:55] Action: Scolar_Visari would, however, appreciate an openworld FPS from the perspective of an Ork. [21:40:05] That would seem like it would have way fewer lore problems than a normal open world FPS. [21:40:06] Like the Witcher or New Vegas, it would involve making morally questionable decisions in a dystopian environment simply to survive another day. Players would be asked, for example, "Should I walk up to the git n' bash em on the head?" or, "Should I sneak up to the git n' bash em in the back of the head?" [21:40:45] Orks being Orks, of course, the actual shooting component would involve missing most shots. [21:41:53] Though I doubt receiving a slugga round to the face would be terribly healthy for the recipient. [21:43:43] Guns with effective ranges comparable to pikes make sense for once! [21:45:25] Pike and shot = Slugga n' shoota [21:46:11] Action: Scolar_Visari notes Warhammer 40k table top rules count a close combat weapon and pistol as being two close combat weapons. [21:46:46] Heh [21:47:02] In any case, the shootas are mostly there to keep Orks entertained as they get up to choppa distances. [21:47:05] can't imagine the target audience for a game where most of your moves miss the enemy [21:47:17] Eddi: Psht, do you even XCOM? [21:47:42] As veteran players may attest, Orks in most of their incarnations have a lot of missing rolls to hit. [21:48:02] Sort of like the Imperial Guard infantry missing most of their rolls to wound. [21:48:08] especially not in combination with getting attached to a single character [21:48:55] well, it works in combination with swarming people, so you hit on average [21:49:05] Getting attached to a single character with a high chance to die is half the fun of Only War! [21:49:10] but that's not what FPS is about [21:49:26] Psht, possess another character ala Dungeon Keeper. [21:50:33] i've seen some battlefield intro campain thing where whenever you die it pops up a death notice for a random name, and you go on with a new character [21:51:41] Heck, Dark Souls has made dying part of the experience too. [21:52:41] And it's not like there have been plenty o' online games with actual penalties for dying. We need more of this for offline so we can die without the threat of griefers! [21:52:44] can't remember when anyone ever complained about that... [22:00:34] Though I do think online games themselves have tended to lean towards death with minimum consequences again ala Elite Dangerous' miniscule insurance costs. [22:01:47] Though losing tens of millions of exploration data credits to an accidental collision with a celestial body is kind of a bummer. [22:03:53] Surprise asteroid? [22:04:54] Well, in Elite, your jumps to other star systems ends with you coming out of Witchspace near and approaching the most massive celestial in the targeted system, which is normally a star but sometimes a stellar remnant or brown dwarf. [22:05:51] A player who is not paying attention can end up with their ship literally running into the star, bringing it out of supercruise with hull damage plus any damage from accumulated thermal energy [22:06:16] ow [22:06:50] But I am always paying attention [22:06:52] :P [22:07:43] Prior to a well aimed patch, it was possible to inevitably die when coming out of Witchspace *between* two close orbiting binaries ala https://bit.ly/2CYSq3T [22:09:28] You can also run into solid, atmosphereless planets properly nowadays. Woe to someone who loses power to their thrusters in a dogfight several kilometers above a planetary surface. [22:10:43] high speed dog fights... or is that orbital speed dog fights? [22:11:22] would you even wanna do aerial combat over an airless planet? [22:11:35] Within a certain distance of a celestial body, you will not actually be in orbit barring special exceptions. [22:11:59] 'witchspace' huh? [22:12:00] Control for a strategic spaceport? [22:12:09] Witchspace = Hyperspace, but with a chance of insects. [22:12:19] why is it called "dogfight" anyway? [22:12:42] Eddi: The contrails of fighting planes left the impression that they were circling eachother like fighting dogs. [22:12:42] old fighter term... two things going around and around, trying to fight [22:13:22] then you get cat fight.. but thats something of a more brutal meaning [22:13:42] Nowadays, moving in circles would be an excellent way of getting shot by a much faster, more agile missile [22:14:34] so in a "dogfight" you're switching between aiming and evasion maneuvers, but don't actually get much shooting done? [22:14:34] if we finding that our sun has an atmosphere that is hotter than its own surface... I can't imagine what being between two stars in close proximity would be like... not to mention the gravitational forces [22:14:54] Eddi: Most shots missed, too. [22:15:23] well, i suppose "in the real world" that is normal [22:15:26] JVFoxy: Well the higher temperature is somewhat misleading, as the atmospheric regions have less stuff. [22:15:54] Eddi: Missing most shots in Elite is typical, too, though their rotary autocannons have a silly low cyclic rate of fire. [22:16:04] aircraft weren't considered much of a viable fighting vehicle... was more used for recon, up till WWII. Before then pilots got the idea on themselves to hand drop bombs on targets and try shooting at other planes with handguns [22:16:41] JVFoxy: I wouldn't go that far. In World War I, there were numerous dedicated fighter craft developed and even strategic bombers (albeit the first being a converted airliner). [22:17:50] Scolar_Visari that wasn't till much later in the war, only small impact. Probably the time between the wars they realized aircraft could actually be something pretty useful [22:17:50] Part of the problem is that biplanes and triplanes didn't have many ways to mount guns that didn't involve shooting off the propellers without some technosorcery. [22:18:16] The first dedicated fighter plane was developed in 1915! [22:18:48] some places actually installed metal plates on the props, deflected bullets [22:18:59] Scolar_Visari: doesn't mean it was actually good. [22:19:12] later they figured a trigger system that would selectively shoot between props [22:19:13] Eddi: No, but it reflected a realization that armed aircraft were useful. [22:19:25] some planes even shot through the middle of the prop hub [22:19:40] Action: Scolar_Visari also notes the rather unsuccessful use of strategic bomber airships. [22:20:08] all good planes had nose guns shooting through the propeller hum [22:20:22] back then, guns jammed quite a lot. Not only did the pilot have to fly, shoot, navigate, but also unjam guns, which happened a lot. That is why the guns were mounted on top facing through the prop [22:20:39] all the BF109 after the E series, all the yaks, some of the FW190 [22:20:42] Fluburtur: Or, in the case of the later Me-109, a cannon firing through the propellor nose! [22:20:48] gave relatively easy access [22:20:56] yeah good ol motorkannone [22:21:10] Wing mounts became more popular over time. [22:21:18] then there is synced nose guns [22:21:24] WWII also saw a German plane that shot massive cannons up and back... idea was to fire at the underbellies of bombers [22:21:30] nose mounted guns are more accurate however [22:21:41] Fluburtur: Accurate-shmacurrate, more dakka! [22:21:48] but you cant put a motokkannone on a radial engine [22:21:59] or on any spitfires because the V of the engines was too tight [22:22:26] im not a fan of wing mounted guns really [22:22:47] exept some of my favorite planes in war thunder have wing mounted guns [22:22:51] surprised didn't see more planes with twin engines... unobstructed nose [22:22:57] the MB157 and the F4u7 [22:23:00] B29 [22:23:32] oh, conversation descended into random keyboard smashing again :/ [22:23:34] at least the russians had the decency to only use nose mounted guns [22:23:50] JVFoxy: Twin engines are a bit of a problem in practice, especially when you lots of fighters. [22:24:03] Eddi: sdfiopuewtisjdgfopidg;oidjb [22:24:06] the bf110 is technically a heavy fighter [22:24:20] also the whirlwinf and moskito [22:24:34] Scolar_Visari then you get the Mosquito.. :) [22:24:40] I may sound smart but I only know all of that from war thunder [22:24:41] Or Comet [22:24:45] JVFoxy: I'll keep my PF-51 thankyouverymuch [22:25:03] Scolar_Visari: well, i can't imagine a language where "F4u7" is a valid word [22:25:18] heh [22:25:21] Eddi: One of the unseen variants of the F4 Phantom. [22:25:38] I wasn't actually too much into fighter planes myself... I ended up going more for the Beech Twin.. a bit of a long story [22:25:51] good ol french corsair https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4565/37879689875_9fdbdb4054_b.jpg [22:25:51] I'm more of a Cobra MK III sort of person. [22:26:13] which is also the best corsair of the game [22:26:22] it is funny, the best american planes are not in the american tree [22:27:02] Sort of like the MiG-21 missing from Ace Combat 6? [22:27:06] Well... did sorta like the F7F TigerCat [22:28:36] Action: Scolar_Visari demands some one make a space combat game that's essentially Ace Combat, but in space. [22:29:32] Or maybe Dropship: United Peace Force in space? [22:30:23] Action: JVFoxy been poking nose in a book again, Space Shuttle Story... [22:30:47] Unfortunately it only chronicles up till challenger explosion. [22:32:02] hmm... someone help me decide on something? [22:32:28] lander craft is 14.9tons... for Mun.. should I keep the twin Terriers, or just go with one? [22:33:27] One would be more stable I would think. [22:33:35] minus fuel load is 4.8 [22:33:53] includes return payload [22:34:16] I'm just finding in testing.. before touchdown, very bare minimum thrust. [22:35:25] found out,t here is just enough fuel load to hop to another biome, and still eject into sub-orbital before switching staging to just the return [22:38:41] suppose I'll just test [22:39:56] arg.. undo messes up.. :( [22:40:05] One terrier should be more than enough. [22:40:52] Calculator here gives an acceleration of 4.027 m/s squared, and Mun's surface gravity is 1.63 m/s suqared. [22:41:07] That's a lift off, you should go much faster towards the end. [22:41:23] I also use it to push to circularize the orbit on kerbin... carry couple of extra tanks which get ditched a few moments before end of the burn. [22:41:42] Yeah, maximum acceleration at 12.6 m/s squared. [22:42:45] ya.. with two of them, I get around 1g acceleration with tanks half full.. [22:42:55] Hrm, Delta-V of 3,832 m/s. [22:44:03] well considering, going from finishing up circularization, from kerbin orbit to Mun orbit. Surface land Mun, possible hop to another biome about 100km over. Then ejection into mun sub-orbital on just the one stage [22:44:08] Enough to get you into orbit . . . From Kerbin, discounting insufficient acceleration! [22:44:46] got a booster stage to get up to 45km kerbin sub-orbital.. [22:45:17] Anyone know when Orbital Reflector is launching? [22:45:40] Action: Scolar_Visari makes note that the puny thrust could make the delta-v to orbit requirements slightly higher, cursing Herman Oberth in the process. [22:47:53] well it only uses terrier while already at suborbital [22:47:54] https://imgur.com/a/iaarZf0 [22:49:27] ConductorCat: No earlier than the 19th. [22:50:30] Thanks [22:51:13] ... launching a reflective sculpture into space? [22:51:30] JVFoxy: It's not an entirely new idea, albeit for the art rather than the mirror part. [22:51:40] Action: Scolar_Visari notes the Russians have launched a couple of larger unfolding mirrors into space. [22:52:12] lol.. wiki on it: is expected to remain in orbit for three months, after which it will immolate [22:52:47] I give you . . . Znamya! https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-russian-space-mirror-briefly-lit-night-180957894/ [22:54:20] the talk about chinese wanting to do a space mirror, the Znamya came up a bit too [22:56:47] The idea really is quite old, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was mentioned before Oberth's own description. [22:58:11] Action: ConductorCat launches Oberth Kerman into space. [22:59:29] Action: Scolar_Visari ponders using Solar sailcraft material in lieu of typical 'hard' mirrors and photovoltaics for Solar powered spacecraft. [23:00:05] I know a similar concept has been mentioned in the context of Solar thermal rocketry, but one could make the case for Solar power that way. [23:01:15] using the sun to power an engine... [23:01:30] That's essentially how electric rockets (like ion drives) work! [23:01:48] JVFoxy: in principle solar thermal can hit ion Isps. [23:01:49] Their, "fuel", to speak, is electricity generated by photovoltaics. [23:02:09] four really big 1km solar reflectors pointed at a single point.. would that point be hotter than if you were to burn bi-propellant fuel? [23:02:16] UmbralRaptop: With thrust around that of a farting infant! [23:02:48] JVFoxy: Whether it's hotter or not is not so much the issue as having superior specific impulse, meaning you require less fuel for a desired delta-v. [23:03:27] Also: Mechanically simpler, which is nice in a lot of ways. It makes engine restarts easier, for one. [23:04:08] Action: Scolar_Visari ponders the erosion of reflective Solar sail material over time against that of photovoltaics' known rate of degradation. [23:04:24] I was just curious from a temperature standpoint more than anything... how you use those temps is an engineering challenge in itself [23:05:08] Well, since the propellant is taking the excess heat away like a normal chemical rocket, it's not as bad an issue as one would have with some other designs. [23:05:30] Action: Scolar_Visari grumbles about the titanic waste heat some electric rockets would retain. [23:07:30] But enough about VASIMR& [23:07:59] Not just VASIMR, the problem's been acknowledged for the better part of a century. [23:08:16] thinking more along the lines of how could one use massive amounts of heat to create a plasma, then how to turn that into thrust [23:08:49] JVFoxy: If you're using plasma, than magnetohydrodynamic shenanigans. [23:09:19] hmm.. solar panels and reflectors then [23:10:41] ah.. here is that pesky engine list http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist.php [23:11:30] Though one of the reasons Solar thermal propulsion is tenable now is that it really is quite simple. [23:14:20] Rather ideal for reusable spacecraft, particularly ones that could refuel in situ like water miners and space pirates. [23:14:42] sailing the black seas of space.. on solar sails [23:16:00] Bonus points for using water as a propellant for low delta-v missions, as water doesn't evaporate out of its container. [23:16:07] Action: Scolar_Visari glares at hydrogen boil off. [23:17:55] You could also use a laser in lieu of Sunlight for fueling missions far from the Sun. [23:18:34] heh.. how to power lasers though... RTG? [23:18:44] Sunlight, of course. [23:19:30] They need not be concerned if they're heavy once they're constructed, whereas mirror size for a desired output gets increasingly large the further out you go to the detriment of spacecraft. [23:20:04] Or you could just skip the rocketry shenanigans and go laser sailcraft. [23:20:23] There's no better way of beating the tyranny of the rocket equation by not using a rocket for space travel! [23:20:29] sorry, brain was thinking to something I saw on the page... use of lasers at a ground station on some moon, beaming at the ship [23:20:57] Probably in orbit, though using terrestrial lasers to fuel surface-to-orbit rockets has been discussed for years now. [23:21:47] Discussed in detail here https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2009/09/14/lightcraft-a-laser-push-to-orbit/ [23:22:10] You could also use microwaves to get around having to shine it all into a reflective surface. [23:22:51] i've heard about lasers to push things out on escape trajectories, but not anyone seriously considering for launching into orbit [23:23:18] Eddi: It's not a popular idea, but it's been around for at least a couple of decades now. [23:23:46] For small payloads, mind you [23:25:09] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtPBqJ8XmWQ [23:26:02] A useful payload to Mars in three days would require a ridonkulous amount of energy! [23:26:14] Action: Scolar_Visari also ponders the extreme acceleration. [23:26:36] that's just the clickbaity title [23:27:26] Eddi|zuHause: laser launch generally tends to be less proposed as less pushing with photons than heating reaction mass. [23:27:39] Sort of like VASIMR advertising thirty day trips to Mars with multi MegaWatt reactors that no one has in space when they're really selling more modest designs? [23:28:13] UmbralRaptop: Hence my calling them rockets rather than sailcraft! [23:28:14] UmbralRaptop: but then you still have some fuel on the rocket [23:28:32] Propellant, not fuel! [23:28:40] same thing [23:28:59] means you're still bound by the rocket equation, but possibility of some more efficient fuel [23:28:59] Er, not really. [23:29:12] Only in chemical rockets is fuel also propellant. [23:29:27] Well, mostly. I suppose some nuclear rockets the two would be the same. [23:29:58] The advantage of remotely provided fuel is that it cuts down on engine mass, which can be tremendously beneficial. [23:30:24] Also, not needing to carry fuel. [23:30:58] Eddi|zuHause: but by separating propellant from fuel, you can use giant ground based power systems. So you can get silly with Isp without the thrust limitations of ions. [23:31:39] UmbralRaptop: Or the inertia of a ginormous power plant [23:31:53] Yep! [23:32:24] It's like an electric locomotive, but with the third rail and overhanging electrical gear replaced with the Death Star. [23:32:45] Action: UmbralRaptop snickers [23:32:58] wireless electric engine [23:33:27] There are designs for trains that don't even contain engines. [23:33:42] Eddi: It's been done. Microwave power transmission's a well established field, and laser power transmission's been discussed recently for powering giant RC plan- er, I mean drones. [23:33:43] those are called cable cars. [23:33:55] Eddi: I was thinking of manned pneumatic tube delivery systems. [23:34:01] Those too. [23:34:14] pneumatic tubes aren't exactly new technology either [23:34:40] Yeah, but for reasons I will not go into, they can't be used for interplanetary space travel. [23:34:42] I mean ones with powered wheels in the track. [23:35:13] Scolar_Visari: pneumatic tube space elevator! [23:35:33] UmbralRaptop: That would require a horrifying mass of carbon nanotubes to make a macrotube. [23:35:45] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Palace_pneumatic_railway [23:37:14] or electromagnets [23:37:27] Action: Scolar_Visari ponders if magrails are the new monorails. [23:37:32] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [23:37:46] i rode the M-Bahn in berlin in the (very) early 90s [23:37:47] Raptop: Perhaps UmbralDesktop doesn't have this problem? [23:38:26] Scolar_Visari: phone's OOM decided to sacrifice IRC to save a web browser [23:38:34] Action: Scolar_Visari envisions the rarer species that is the UmralConsoleraptor. [23:39:07] "I mean, it's not like anyone actually uses IRC for anything but idling amirite? LOGGING OFF." [23:39:09] Action: UmbralRaptop should set things up so I have a desktop with IRSSI again. [23:39:38] UmbralRaptop: my recent descents into OOM mentioned that chrome actually sets a OOM factor that makes sure it's always the first to be killed [23:39:39] "This is memory you could be using for Candy Crush and cat videos!" [23:41:11] my own experience is that steam is the first one to go, before the actual game that is needing all the memory [23:41:22] hm [23:41:37] ... and that takes often longer than 30 minutes of non-responsiveness to even trigger [23:41:39] You know . . . I've never had that problem. [23:42:05] Action: Scolar_Visari thinks the only game they've had crash for memory related issues was KSP prior to its switch to the newer version of Unity. [23:42:44] That's even considering most games still don't take advantage of all the memory one could have. [23:44:07] What is it that you have that would force Steam to crash? [23:45:07] dunno, i suspect the graphics driver [23:46:18] As many CTDs as I've had over the years, I don't recall Steam crashing prior to whatever I was playing. [23:46:34] Action: Scolar_Visari likes to think they are an expert on getting games to run on fossils. [23:46:37] OOM isn't really the same as CTD [23:47:38] Yeah, but how would you know if Steam went first? [23:47:57] i remember when i switched from a 32bit system with 1GB ram and 2GB swap, to a 64bit system with 4GB ram and no swap. i pretty much immediately ran into OOM where previously it was fine [23:48:08] Action: Scolar_Visari legit thinks the only other title other than KSP that had OOM issues was . . . Drawing a blank here. [23:48:09] Scolar_Visari: the OOM killer leaves a log entry [23:48:46] I always thought they were just left blank to tease people. [23:49:22] That's not very much Ram. [23:49:44] that was 8 years ago or so [23:49:57] i upgraded to 12GB somewhere inbetween [23:50:20] but "more ram" doesn't solve the OOM problems [23:51:28] Action: Scolar_Visari grumbles something about old Unity 4 KSP. [23:53:09] Action: UmbralRaptop ¯\_(Ä)_/¯ [23:53:16] Action: Scolar_Visari also ponders if "More AI and neural networking!" is today's version of, "More RAM!" [23:53:29] Action: UmbralRaptop usually feels more CPU or GPU bound, really [23:53:44] "We just wave AI against this problem and it's magically solved!" - Ray Kurzweil or someone. [23:54:01] i've now enabled zswap, maybe that mitigates the OOM issues long enough... [23:54:03] Well, aside from when I was attempting to work with egg in Principia. [23:54:15] but that's hardly any better than "more RAM" [23:54:21] I imagine Principia is more resource intensive than 2-body physics stock KSP. [23:54:57] Scolar_Visari: surely missing blockchain! [23:55:10] and serverless cloud [23:55:33] Lagranage's 19th Century pen and paper version of KSP must've been a pain to play. Think of how many graduate students calculating things out that he would've needed for Munar missions! [23:56:17] Scolar_Visari: i imagine that hardly improved by the time they ran the actual moon mission [23:56:21] Eddi: A blockchain company did just buy out Planetary Resources. [23:56:37] Eddi: Psht, NASA bought up most of the planet's processing power for that stuff, and they had nifty electromechanical calculators. [23:56:51] Though a lot of the pre-Apollo stuff did require people crunching the numbers. [23:57:49] Action: Scolar_Visari likes to point out that, although the onboard computers of the LM and CM were to computers as sharp sticks are to machine guns, the heavy lifting was done by stuff on Earth. [23:58:18] hey, mankind got pretty far with sharp sticks [23:58:19] Scratch that: As sharp sticks are to tactical yield nuclear weapons. [23:58:30] Eddi: Don't forget pitfalls and bison jumps. [23:58:38] Scolar_Visari: Hah. I vaguely recall that 19th century people had analytic solutions (approximations?) for some kinds of 3 body interactions? [23:58:59] UmbralRaptop: Even Newton realized that the Solar System was fundamentally chaotic in his own lifetime. [23:59:07] hm [23:59:26] This was sort of a problem that was, "resolved" before astrodynamicists realized he was actually quite right. [23:59:30] Action: UmbralRaptop tends to associate that with 20th century Russians for some reason. [23:59:57] The elimination of serfdom has many parallels with chaotic celestial systems.