[00:04:34] STARMAN IS DOWN [00:04:36] PANIC [00:04:54] huh? [00:05:13] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBr2kKAHN6M It's a conspiracy! [00:05:14] YouTube - Live Views of Starman [00:05:21] what about the press conference? [00:06:23] Officially, it hit the drone ship at 300mph [00:06:37] watching it now [00:06:51] so did they finally sink it? [00:06:58] i heard the water, due to the outer 2 engines not igniting with the center one igniting. [00:07:43] link [00:08:14] link to crash. I wanna see the center core "landing". [00:08:35] Well, they need to recover the drone ship first. [00:08:42] Musk said it hit the drone ship and tookout 2 of it's engines [00:09:02] I heard it didn't ignite the 3 engines required, with only the center igniting. [00:09:13] So it missed the drone ship, impacting the water at 300mph [00:09:25] oh, the audio was really bad for me then [00:09:50] do they know if they can repair it? [00:10:28] The barge? if it didn't sink they almost certainly will [00:10:31] i don't think anything happened to the drone ship... it depends on how it impacted. [00:10:34] Booster was supposed to be a throwaway anyhow [00:10:46] He made it sound like the impact damaged 2 of the barge's engine pods [00:11:55] When the engines didn't fire, it's impossible the core stage hit the drone ship. [00:12:06] if one did it might [00:12:10] unless it had a failsafe [00:12:13] I think I need to redo my modlist, something isnt right with eve and SRSS [00:12:22] center engine ignited, outers did not. [00:12:31] So it had some thrust, but not enough to land intact [00:12:37] I'd imagine that if all three engines don't ignire properly... there is a contigency to miss the barge if possible. [00:12:57] Yeah, it probably came down next to it and damaged it but shouldn't have hit hard enough to sink it [00:13:10] It'd still need to ignite at least one of the outer engines to even align the rocket to the barge [00:13:41] The fact is, for some reason (possibly low fuel); 2/3 of the engines required did not fire properly. [00:13:51] one day they will succeed in bringing down that boat! [00:14:01] Makes me wonder why they don't arm 5 of the engines for restart [00:14:06] Ignite engine 5 (center) [00:14:08] were they going for 3 engine landing on the drone ship? [00:14:10] more plumbing [00:14:10] Then ignite 2 and 7 [00:14:18] If 2 or 7 fail, shut down 2/7 and ignite 3/6 [00:14:19] Oic [00:14:23] Redundant landing engines [00:14:26] requires more hardware to relight the engines [00:14:31] Not by much [00:14:35] You need restart capability on more engines... along with more helium purges and whatnot for the turbopumps. [00:14:44] restart capability is HEAVY [00:14:45] Its the same engines throughout, just a matter of how many engines have the igniters connected etc [00:15:07] they need the hypergolic fuel for the igniters and stuff to pump it [00:15:10] you also need to purge the internals when shutdown... along with differing designs. [00:15:22] i'd assume that the engines that restart have a different ignition system from the ones that don't [00:15:24] I guess ignition failure and low fuel did fun stuff [00:15:28] Ah. So the restartable engines are a different spec than the ones that only fire once [00:15:35] But it sounds like it came down next to the barge [00:15:37] oh yea they are... space is complex. [00:15:44] and when it fell over as they usually do, that's what actually damaged the barge [00:15:56] mr starman is back in daylight [00:15:59] There was definitely stuff impinging on the barge... the question is where it impacted. [00:16:12] Yeah. Before the stream failed there was smoke and mist over the barge [00:16:30] But it wasn't on target, so the craft probably didn't have enough thrust to kill hvel and overshot the barge [00:16:33] then fell back against it [00:16:45] Too bad they haven't shown footage, it'd be cool to see [00:19:27] don't they usualy have a flying camera near the boat? [00:29:01] Tourist Orbiting and Unguided Reentry System (TOURS) continues to perform nominally. With tourists that actually want to go to orbit, it should be very profitable. https://imgur.com/a/3ilGH [00:29:02] https://i.imgur.com/acI5Pc8.png [00:29:58] (Also, when is a grind not a grind? When it means practicing launches and testing vehicles. Next logical step is some basic life support, or a craft that can do orbital rescues. [00:30:12] but first, level 2 tracking station... [00:31:30] looks like she may get to re-enter over the day side. sadly, I covered the window with a solar panel. [00:38:05] TOURS landing test (with live tourist, for better or worse) likely after this orbit. SMA is already probably inside the atmosphere. https://imgur.com/a/VHfyK [00:38:06] https://i.imgur.com/IAZfXFS.png [00:38:20] it's going to be a long reentry, but we do have full ablator, which forgiveth many sins. [00:42:07] Is there anyway to determine what mods cause crash? [00:42:21] "short flights with BFR maybe next year" = in 5 years [00:42:31] taking bets!! [00:45:33] Action: diveyez bets 19324BTC [00:47:41] Crash solved, steam loads 32 ksp by default oops [00:56:11] that it does [01:00:47] I have desktop shortcuts to KSP64 for each install [01:01:40] TOURS is go for final descent. [01:01:52] I think ground constructs broke the GPP stuff [01:02:02] i haven't used my desktop shortcuts in years [01:02:20] currently at 50 KM, and near-orbital velocity. Tourist appears happy. Using manual adjustments to keep heatshield pointed downrange. [01:02:20] but i can see how it's handy for that [01:02:49] how many installs do you have Pakaran? [01:03:30] Ezko, just 3. the one I mostly play, one completely stock for tutorials, and one RSS [01:03:38] ah [01:04:39] TOURS descender still going quite a bit too fast, but should be fine. https://imgur.com/a/KiEZM [01:04:39] https://i.imgur.com/qQgDkXq.png [01:04:46] stock heat shields are amazing, especially for LKO speeds [01:14:01] Grrr, takes too long to drift to Minmus. [01:18:01] and Val will test the mostly-reusable ascender and in the process become first Kerbal in orbit. [01:18:03] https://imgur.com/a/8IEmw [01:18:03] https://i.imgur.com/50JTwc5.jpg [01:18:52] those numbers are actually low, because it will launch with the first stage throttled back. [01:19:07] Also, yes, I'm using scaled-up MK16 chutes as nosecones on the boosters, heh. [01:19:16] They fall conveniently within 10-15 km of SC [01:21:03] https://www.engadget.com/2018/02/06/spacex-falcon-heavy-center-core-lost/ [01:22:03] Do you think they have a betting pool at SpaceX on if they will sink the boat this time or not? [01:22:04] Yep. FYI you could see the livestream of the empty droneship during the actual launch in a monitor in the backround. [01:24:33] They do target next to the boat so if the engines don't ignite it will slam into the water at absurd speeds. If only 1 engine ignited, it would still probably slam into the water at slightly less absurd speeds. [01:24:58] Man, that roadster is up there. [01:25:19] 300mph at impact with the water isn't an absurd speed for a whatever tonne rocket stage? [01:25:22] How high is the apoapsis? [01:25:26] Makes me want to watch "HEavy Metal" again :P [01:25:56] That's not low earth orbit from what I can see. [01:26:07] At least not the level the ISS is at but it's pretty low. [01:26:24] Elon said he needed the titanium grid fins off of the F9 boosters though... he expected the redesigned center stage to fail (which is also why it landed at sea) [01:26:53] Oh, neat, using titanium now. [01:26:58] Weight savings? [01:27:51] stronger and the titanium doesn't ablate [01:27:58] which makes reusing the stage much easier. [01:28:24] those 4 foot by 5 foot grid fins (made out of titanium) aren't cheap. [01:28:30] especially with 8 of them [01:29:22] Center stage was still metal? [01:29:25] steel [01:29:51] 134k people are watching Starman. [01:29:52] painted ailiuiminium [01:30:19] the recovered stages are unpainted titanium. [01:30:42] i would like to find the price of those grid fins though [01:33:26] And the center stage was a complete redesign due to the 1,000,000 lb+ loading it needed to take. [01:35:03] How big are the grid fins? [01:35:09] 20 square feet each [01:35:12] I'm thinking about making one into a coffee table. [01:35:21] 4' x 5' [01:35:33] So more bedframe material. [01:35:58] Yeah, sleeping on a Falcon 9 grid fin (with box spring and mattress) would be cool. [01:36:22] http://i.imgur.com/ReW6q4U.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ReIPGs5.jpg [01:36:24] 5' isn't enough so .... I guess put 2 together or extend it a bit with other material? [01:36:28] Val should be go to be first Kerbal in orbit (and get any space science Jeb missed). After that, more tourists. https://imgur.com/a/qrlRN [01:36:28] https://i.imgur.com/pTxPHBG.png [01:37:16] Interesting pokey bits it's got. Didn't know about those. [01:37:45] And it's curved, darn. [01:37:50] yep, the entire aft side is pointy [01:37:53] Not the best bedrframe. [01:38:56] I notice they put some plugs in the leading edge RCS ports. [01:39:04] That's interesting, too. [01:39:32] for some reason, FMRS didn't register Val's first stage, even though it should have armed the chutes at sep (double checked my other screenshot). Oh well. https://imgur.com/a/uvCxr [01:39:32] https://i.imgur.com/CozUZ75.png [01:41:14] powered down at 59 km, preparing for apo kick burn [01:43:24] it already auto-reocvered, nice [01:45:35] orbit entered, have 143k funds before craft recovery. [01:47:55] https://twitter.com/iyzie/status/961000419345551361 [01:47:55] Wait. Does this mean a Tesla Roadster is TRL-9? [01:50:06] Where do I make the deorbit burn to land near the SC? [01:50:43] I vaguely remember reading somewhere that you should do it a quarter of the way around, so the predicted perikerb is another quarter of the way around past the SC? [01:51:48] well, I'll try that. [01:52:36] Depends on descent profile details, IIRC. [01:53:00] well, I'll try that and see how it goes. [01:53:27] did the interplanetary burn for the F9H happen yet? [01:55:04] https://imgur.com/a/XLL6Q [01:55:04] https://i.imgur.com/UKi8HIG.png [01:55:37] and sep. Upper stage is committed to burn up with quite a lot of fuel, but oh well. mission said orbit, and I wanted to be sure of having all the near space science [01:56:50] going to way overshoot the SC, but live and learn. [02:06:55] kinda makes me want to try Career again [02:19:56] <3 career. [02:24:19] world firsts contracts are a bit... ambitious in this mod. https://imgur.com/a/XLL6Q [02:25:46] Starman is dead [02:25:49] F [02:29:14] RIP [02:37:46] Two tourists want suborbital spaceflight. The first one's craft is overbuilt, but I plan to launch almost vertically to gain high space science. https://imgur.com/a/EnQj3 [02:37:46] https://i.imgur.com/YMzXkKl.jpg [02:40:49] You may need to send along a non-tourist to operate the science gear. [02:40:57] Starman, ho3w did he die? [02:41:07] Ran out of zots? Hit Vger? [02:41:15] no, it has a probe core and is using only sounding rockets mod stuff. [02:41:25] (I did in fact get some biomes with actual sounding rockets) [02:41:37] do need to arrange power though [02:42:46] Wow, COMPLETELY went higher than expected....almost 300KM, had three Hammer boosters on takeoff [02:59:13] TIL something about Zeppelins and British airships. [02:59:47] https://imgur.com/a/4KVJS [02:59:48] https://i.imgur.com/vROmFsp.jpg [03:00:02] Britan built a ship called the R101 which, sadly, crashed in France during the maiden voyage to India... [03:00:30] good news is it should be fully recoverable, and is (barely) 30 parts. bad news is if recovery fails, I'll lose some money on getting the tourist suborbital. [03:00:40] The hydrogen used to lift the thing made it so that the only thing left in the wreckage was the metal frame... [03:01:06] ... which they then sold for scrap to the Zeppelin company. [03:01:20] They melted it and made.... the LZ 129 [03:01:29] ...AKA the Hindenburg [03:15:02] heh, nice [03:16:47] Did you know about the R100, though? [03:17:09] basically, what if the R101 was not completely mismanaged and instead built & flown properly [03:17:32] could have been as successful as the LZ 127-130 series [03:17:55] instead, they grounded the superior R100 after the R101 disaster [03:18:34] "The entire framework of the ship was flattened by steamrollers and sold for less than £600." feelsbadman [03:24:57] science successful, preparing for return. [03:24:59] https://imgur.com/a/hKxXD [03:25:00] https://i.imgur.com/MzpmZYJ.png [03:27:11] failed because the tourist passed out on reentry. should have done some lateral burn. [03:27:14] oh well. [03:31:09] Yes, you have to unlock struts in order to get autostruts, which makes sense. [05:02:32] Hullo [05:02:46] What a lovely launch of the Falcon H [05:08:50] BadRocketsCo: I've watched it like a dozen times [05:09:15] Heh, yeah [05:09:16] Same [05:09:26] What an eventful launch, too. [05:09:57] Also, sending a car to mars may just be the most expensive troll done to date [05:14:13] TheKosmonaut: I couldn't find any info on the core stage landing though. How'd that go? [05:17:11] ded [05:17:29] or krakened [05:17:31] :P [05:19:39] Naw [05:20:06] Eh, still a huge succes for the first launch. [05:23:24] BadRocketsCo: Yeah, one engine ignited, but the other two did not. [05:23:38] So it impacted the water some 100m away at 130+ m/s [05:23:44] Huh, interesting. [05:24:13] Wonder why the other engines didn't ignite. [05:25:11] There was not enough of the catalyst or something [05:25:19] I'm sure more detailed info will follow soon [05:27:13] hmm [05:27:45] I almost think stock, at least at the low level I'm playing, is balanced so trying to recover boosters and things, while fairly easy to do, also consumes part count and doesn't save that much money. [05:28:16] Big, appropriately thrust-limited, booster plus fins is a first stage by itself, and I think it was under 2k total funds last time I did it that way. [05:28:58] Still have another tourist to get suborbital. [05:29:21] before Jets were nerfed a bit, they were really easy [05:29:26] TheKosmonaut: yup [05:29:26] Scott Manley had a good design for that [05:30:01] Pakaran: You can do some decent reuse if you do RTLS for a very simple rocket, it leaves you with very tight margins though [05:30:25] In RO or other realism mods like that, you'll probably have better savings. [05:31:20] TheKosmonaut, this is what I used to get Val into orbit. [05:31:22] https://i.imgur.com/50JTwc5.jpg [05:31:49] with a few minor delta-v tweaks etc, and a simpler liquid-fueled version with electronics handles the tourists. [05:32:14] I could try something, I dont have that save scum mod installed at the moment though so I wont really be able to do a full mission [05:32:25] I really need to save for the level 2 VAB. [05:33:11] my other idea was using 0.5m or even 0.3m boosters just to get off the pad. [05:35:22] but basically, the first stage is just a lateral basic chute, and a lateral basic drogue chute, upscaled one size. turns out the drogue isn't necessary -- it has a lot more drag for its mass than something heavy like a pod. [05:36:49] (the other thing is next time I need to over-engineer for a problem, I can just remove the stage recovery stuff, and/or science). [05:39:10] Well, I like to use AIRBRAKES in lieu of gridfins if I am playing stock [05:39:29] and I dont usually do any sort of braking maneuver other than boost-back [05:39:37] I dont need to land on a pad or anything, just near KSC is fine [05:39:49] That said, I dont exactly try to aim for anything beyond rule of cool [05:40:20] heh nice [05:40:59] I may just timewarp to some more lucrative contracts, or try to do a more controlled suborbital rocket to do some of the observations over Kerbin. [05:47:05] Pakaran: btw, handy command for the debug console: /ksc [05:47:28] what does it do? [05:47:36] try it and see :) [05:48:45] alright. [05:49:15] I'm currently watching KSP videos while waiting for KSP to load. [05:50:09] I mentioned it to you because you seem to fly planes [05:51:13] Whooops [05:51:31] I uh... forgot to put a probe core on the first stage. [05:52:25] you didn't need that first stage anyway [05:53:11] thanks. [05:53:26] I try to fly planes. Planes I design, well, I learned a few things since I last tried. [05:53:26] is that why the center core crashed? [05:55:48] heh, fixed landing gear exploaded on contact with the runway, but I was still airborn [05:55:58] so I managed to pull off a splash landing [05:56:48] which is interesting. last time I tried a splash landing in FAR, things went very badly [05:58:04] oops... may have overdone it a tad https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/VT6jXLFh/screenshot186.png [06:00:05] mmm.. [06:00:27] hit the surface at about 70 m/s [06:00:39] Should have switched on the outer engines [06:01:21] 252km/h [06:01:23] will try one more time, with less boomboom [06:01:47] There's probably too much mass in S2 [06:01:51] I could do with a smaller upper stage [06:02:04] I wouldnt do a barge landing, not that good [06:02:12] But it's definitely capable [06:02:24] one contract just wants a crew report above 26 km, no upper limit. so this should work quite well, and cheaply. https://imgur.com/a/jRgTD [06:02:25] https://i.imgur.com/WKwUhgG.jpg [06:06:55] taniwha: second attempt was 20 m/s then the engines cut out :/ [06:07:01] The legs are rather weak [06:07:15] what's that.. .like 72 km/h [06:07:36] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/l0VK5gRe/screenshot189.png [06:07:45] I landed on the legs but they crumpled [06:08:34] yeah, 20m/s = 72km/h [06:08:46] x3.6 for m/s to km/h [06:09:03] x2.25 for mph [06:09:22] x2 for knots [06:09:37] (close enough) [06:10:56] If I had just another second of thrust [06:11:01] I would have landed, I think [06:11:21] Mechjeb probably would do the suicide burn properly [06:11:23] crew report collected (albeit very high up). Jeb just got a bit of reentry heating. [06:14:22] TheKosmonaut: how are the kiddos doing? [06:18:57] Sorry, I just realised that you may not want to talk about that in the channel... [06:19:30] Aw drats... Crashed again [06:19:33] BadRocketsCo: They're great! [06:20:23] The oldest one watched the FH video and said "ohh rokketo" [06:20:27] roketto* [06:22:04] hehe the video from the car is still amazing [06:22:43] too bad it is not streaming anymore [06:23:32] you can download 4 hours of footage from periscope using youtube-dl [06:24:12] be warned that it downloads it as over 1600 seperate files, merges them but doesn't delete them [06:24:21] lol [06:39:29] TheKosmonaut: hehe, aww [06:39:38] Young rocket scientist in making [06:40:09] need to show my kids when they get home [06:40:28] trouble is, I tend to get "moo ii ka?" [06:44:59] https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/399309813713993730/410589487106883594/image.jpg [06:45:25] https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/399309813713993730/410581351532724224/image.jpg [06:46:01] first is better [06:46:53] the dude, where is my care was also good [06:46:57] -e [06:48:34] https://i.imgur.com/BEnpAeD.jpg [06:49:06] heh [06:49:43] Ha. [06:49:58] Now I gotta listen to David Bowie again [06:50:01] SAILORS [06:50:05] Fighting in the dance hall [06:52:25] Heh [06:52:36] What is the song that they're playing in the stream btw? [06:52:59] which stream [06:53:13] The SpaceX stream where they show the car [06:53:39] was there any music? [06:53:45] Ye [06:54:00] i thought it was coming from the other video i was klistening to in the background [06:54:22] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KORTP545vAc [06:54:22] YouTube - LIVE: Space X News Conference after SUCCESSFUL Falcon Heavy Launch, Most Powerful Rocket [07:00:52] BadRocketsCo: I think the music is Star Man [07:01:04] (launch vid) [07:01:10] Ah, okay [07:01:13] they played Life On Mars at one point [07:01:24] but I think they also played Starman after it landed [07:01:25] at least they said it was going to be starman [07:01:38] was certainly Bowie [07:02:58] lol one of the reportes mentioned dude where is my car [07:04:41] what, bfr next year??? [07:04:59] NEXT year? [07:05:06] Really? [07:05:15] not the whole rocket, just the top part [07:05:15] Bro [07:05:21] how is that even possible [07:05:23] Oooh, okay [07:05:29] Still though, awesome [07:05:37] ok, he said, maybe next year [07:06:11] hhe meant hopper tests, so short flight and landing [07:06:11] taniwha: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/WfjAS60t/Screen%20Shot%202018-02-07%20at%204.05.11%20PM.png [07:06:15] I keep messing up [07:06:25] But there's the flight recorder from MECO and Sep [07:08:55] hehe reentry heating scales with the eighth power of speed, that is what he said [07:09:16] so they start with the ship part, because that is the hardest, heat shield for hyperbolic velocities [07:09:33] I've invested more time in thsi than I would like [07:09:42] This isnt even in a save I am playing. [07:09:59] hah the spacesuite [07:10:05] production design [07:10:46] hehe hard to make a spacesuite that works and looks good [07:11:00] he answer if it was pressurized [07:11:03] sounded like it was being qualified as a side project [07:11:32] yes he said that [07:12:53] If no one creates a Roadster model mod for KSP i will be disappointed in the community [07:14:05] I imagine someone already has blender (or other) open already [07:15:31] what, why wasnt it ou talready? [07:16:01] the chat section is silly [07:27:28] https://twitter.com/technojumbo747/status/961078533584928771 [07:27:29] ¤óÕë¨ó¶}'`c_hM( https://t.co/iA5xqgClJm [07:33:41] why influenza? [07:52:00] A play on Lufthansa Althego [07:52:07] judging by the logo [07:53:19] yeah [07:54:25] i see that [07:54:30] but what is the joke? [07:54:41] it seems completely unrelated [07:54:42] it rhymes [07:56:59] Well, TOURS orbital version appears successful. As an experiment, this one also carries a snack container, so tourists don't end up, erm, becoming tourists after they get hungry. They're all going into LKO anyhow, but incremental improvement is fun. [09:25:10] another failed attempt at asteroid retrieval [09:25:12] https://i.imgur.com/amqNCJc.png [09:34:05] we need stock hinges? [09:42:51] Mat2ch, winch would be enough [09:43:17] hmmm, makes me thing of another solution [09:43:21] * think [09:48:42] did the transfer burn work? [09:52:48] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [09:57:46] https://78.media.tumblr.com/bc18272e539100e6199b94a750d31a25/tumblr_inline_omo6gxZl3h1tu9u6o_540.jpg [10:22:17] apparently they overshot mars [10:22:29] they ned to f9 to before the burn [10:40:51] https://imgur.com/gallery/QjvMW :D [10:40:51] https://i.imgur.com/dmF5CaU.png [10:43:30] lol [10:45:23] hunger [10:46:21] games [10:46:26] ball [10:46:27] food [10:47:03] uuuh [10:48:12] where is video of kaboom [10:52:10] Action: Mat2ch too [10:52:19] But I'm not sure what I wanna cook [11:06:19] it is snowing here [11:06:24] we got like 5cm [11:09:12] Sunshine! [11:09:19] But still no idea what to cook [11:09:28] I may go for some potatos and scrambled eggs [11:23:58] potatoes with cheese and lardon is good [11:28:39] lardon? [11:28:47] Hm, never tried potatoes with cheese [11:29:04] little pieces of meat [11:29:11] except in a gratin [11:33:09] never had cheese on baked potatoes? [11:33:12] you haven't lived [11:33:39] gross [11:33:55] at least define what kind of cheese should go there [11:53:41] all sorts of cheese should go there [11:55:14] i object [12:02:56] your loss [12:06:11] even that smelly french cheese? [12:06:30] the more smelly the better [12:07:03] yikes [12:07:05] Gasher[work]: if you happen to like the cheese [12:07:08] hehe [12:07:18] it depends really. [12:07:21] damn [12:07:57] it's taht kind of thing that i think i detest, then i eat a piece then i crave more even though it tastes weird [12:08:07] but i still have to stop myself from eating that [12:09:06] why stop yourself? [12:11:51] because after a certain amount i don't feel well [12:12:12] and mouth and tongue feel abused by its taste and smell [12:12:48] good reason [12:37:09] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o APlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [12:47:18] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o BPlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [13:40:15] https://i.imgur.com/fmXtUID.jpg [14:05:08] so they missed mars? [14:05:16] yeah [14:05:23] going straight for the asteroids belt [14:05:45] lame [14:05:55] "Missed"? [14:06:05] engine worked too well [14:06:41] Huh? [14:07:04] burned too much I think [14:07:20] Vid or never, oh, you know the drill. :D [14:07:22] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/961083704230674438 [14:07:23] Third burn successful. Exceeded Mars orbit and kept going to the Asteroid Belt. https://t.co/bKhRN73WHF [14:07:40] I don't think they even aimed for Mars. Just at Mars' solar orbit. [14:08:17] hot damn https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVYxQvKV4AA52_J.jpg [14:08:56] they aimed for a lower apoapsis than they got [14:09:23] well I have to go get a train [14:11:33] But, I mean... /this/ much can't be an error in the burn duration, can it? Some sort of IMU would surely have cut off the engine? [14:12:15] maybe some systems got fried in the van allen belt [14:12:56] For once, I wish Elon gave some real information, rather than his famous Jokemisms [14:13:12] I don't think it was a mistake. They just burned all the fuel they had to see how far it would go. [14:13:42] But... Mars... [14:13:52] Ceres :) [14:14:09] Action: BPlayer is disappointed in the new destination [14:14:14] They are going to make a Ceres colony instead :). [14:14:23] That's like aiming for Duna and ending up at Dres in KSP [14:14:33] Noone wants to visit Dres :P [14:14:41] I passed by there. [14:15:19] Just to have been there and at all other planets with a rocket left over from an asteroid mission and some fuel left. [14:16:06] Oh well, whatever [14:16:27] I'm off for now, but be back soon. See you! [14:16:32] cu [14:27:40] Has anyone tried Nightengale contract mods with alternate star systems? [14:28:29] http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/170609678681/kerbal-space-program-making-history-expansion [14:28:30] wooooo [14:49:05] "all players who purchased the game before April 2013 will receive the expansion for free" [14:49:21] >_< dammit [14:52:36] I wonder if it's possible to reproduce the double booster landing from yesterday using kOS [14:53:03] 2/10/1013 \o/ [14:53:10] ve2dmn, on the flip side, they paid in 2013, and are just now receiving their first paid expansion. [14:53:34] er 2013* lol [14:53:37] because I do believe that as long as both booster stay inside the physics range , both CPU would be running... [14:53:43] I have no idea when I got ksp.. [14:54:01] ... that leaves the question of the core [14:54:29] well.. you could go for 100% accuracy... :/ [14:54:35] Pakaran: I will gladly pay. I have a gaming addiction at this point. I must own them all [14:55:35] Michiyo: you bought it in november? that's too late [14:55:39] hm, probably june/july 2013... [14:55:47] Oh, right.... non us dates. [14:55:50] 10/2/2013 :P [14:56:26] ISO format, true format :P [14:56:34] Michiyo, convert from your heathen date formats! [14:56:50] If i wrote my dates like that I'd be fired. [14:56:52] soooo [14:56:56] I'll pass [14:57:11] I'd probably quit if I had to write my dates like that [14:57:25] I stick with 2018-02-07 because we stupidely support all standards... [14:58:01] are we complaining about how America does stuff again? Fun fact, groups of people are all somewhat different [14:58:20] yes but come on... date formats... [14:58:22] :p [14:58:28] who cares [14:58:40] ISO 8601 [14:58:41] as a programmer I take offence to that [14:58:46] I don't care that in Japan they write from right to left [14:58:54] and go down instead of across [14:59:28] japanese is easier to recognize as such, date formats aren't [14:59:49] madmerlyn: Welcome to my world [14:59:57] the argument is because we all use arabic numerals we should hate the way one group does it? [14:59:59] madmerlyn: more of US vs EU. JP and CN stick characters denoting day/month/year next to the numbers much of the time. [15:00:20] I like (month, day, year) but I've also seen (day, month, year) [15:01:17] YYYY-MM-DD is unambiguous. [15:01:36] I've never heard a person say aloud "5th October" but I've heard many people say "October 5th", and it's really only confusing if there's absolutely no context and it's the first half of a month [15:02:02] madmerlyn, sure, but if you just use numbers there's no way to know what the format is without sticking to standards [15:02:06] madmerlyn: sure... you celebrate the "July of 4th" [15:02:34] ve2dmn: ITYM "Exploding Eagle Day" [15:02:56] we call it Fourth of July, but that's more of an irregularity, generally people don't include articles when verbalizing dates unless they're being overly formal [15:03:07] you know.. like on a very special day in their culture [15:03:20] YYYY-MM-DD also sorts correctly by default lexicographic sorts. No need for format recognition [15:03:26] the american argument for mm/dd/yyyy is "we say month nth", but in actual speech they're not saying 10 5th, they're saying october 5th [15:03:37] Iskierka, indeed [15:03:52] I'm just annoyed at being a second class citizen all the time... *I* have to bow to everyone else because they can't be bothered to learn that other standard *exist* [15:04:06] And I got laugh at for using 24h time format [15:04:25] "Look at the crazy foreigner using military time" [15:04:29] *sigh* [15:04:42] stabbity [15:04:51] I'm fully aware of other standards, I just tire of the constant "lul muricans is so dumb because they don't use the metric system or apply the same logic to date formats I do" [15:05:03] It's a daily routine, and I hate that bit [15:05:03] 24 h avoids confusion [15:05:15] american date systems don't apply logic [15:05:23] k. [15:05:26] madmerlyn, at least with imperial things you're denoting units, with dates you aren't [15:05:39] Seconds since the epoch would give us a nice, consistent format. [15:05:49] Time has units. [15:05:51] you all are absolutely right. Americans are stupid and should just not record dates at all [15:06:07] madmerlyn: as a standard, it's perfectly fine. Standard are not about being perfect, they are about beeing agreed on. [15:06:33] standards exists so there aren't confusions [15:06:37] it's a standard that we use, what part of that is so offensive? [15:06:43] jwest: sort of hard for a person to read, but yes. Hence the popularity of JD-big_num in my field. [15:06:45] there is no logic in representing totally sequential data without sequence [15:06:54] Psh. [15:06:56] What's frustrating is being laugh at [15:06:58] Plebs. [15:07:11] Swatch beats time [15:07:14] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o BPlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [15:07:19] it's only totally sequential because you've decided the units should be sequenced [15:07:22] And the fact that all 3 standard are legal in Canada [15:07:38] ... No, it's sequential because there's a mathematical ordering to them [15:07:39] UmbralRaptor: Only because we're not used to it, I'd bet. If we kept at it long enough, it might become natural. [15:07:45] dates are a total order [15:08:07] YYYY-MM-DD is a fine format for that [15:08:12] jwest: no, no. Too many digits. [15:08:23] Well, assuming squad uses a decent date format: 2013-02-10 copied from my store profile. :P [15:08:26] but saying MM-DD-YYYY is illogical is being stubborn and I'm done with this idiotic conversation [15:08:28] *I* have to bow to our partners in the US and France. It's just frustrating. [15:08:30] hello [15:08:32] keep the circlejerk going if you want, I'm done. [15:08:33] ;wa seconds since 1970-01-01 [15:08:34] UmbralRaptor: seconds since Thursday, January 1, 1970: 1.518×10^9 seconds [15:08:39] hi, Guest88021 [15:08:56] You can't justify a logic to it, so it's illogical [15:08:57] Of all things for this channel to get worked up over [15:09:03] how do I fix "no such host is known" in dmp [15:09:05] dates are a total order and that format ignores the order [15:09:08] TheKosmonaut: welcome to my world :P [15:09:19] madmerlyn, it's fine if you don't use a number for the month :p [15:09:20] no, I have justified logic for it, you just refuse to accept that [15:09:21] Could be worse [15:09:35] In Japan they use imperial years and 24h format with AM and PM [15:09:37] otherwise you're just inviting being misunderstood [15:09:40] You have justified relative position of MM and DD, not why YYYY should be totally out of order [15:09:41] so I've seen 00:00PM [15:09:42] TheKosmonaut: It's death by 1000 cuts [15:09:44] Guest88021: not familiar with dmp, ask I'm #dmp? [15:09:55] ok [15:10:01] UmbralRaptor: Are you #DMP? [15:10:08] well Eclipser it's a good thing that I'm not writing an international scientific paper to bring my date format under scrutiny then isn't it [15:10:19] I wasn't aware that DMP was still a thing [15:10:24] Action: UmbralRaptor troutslaps TheKosmonaut [15:10:34] UmbralRaptor: first of all...how dare you [15:10:45] Second of all, will you be wanting this trout back? [15:10:48] madmerlyn, just don't make any plans to meet up with non-americans at a specific date then [15:11:07] because communication and regional standards are mutually exclusive? [15:11:26] Who writes dates in that manner in casual conversation? [15:11:53] I'd sooner type out "I'll be there from August 7th to the 23rd" [15:11:59] Mods: I'm sorry for my remark. [15:12:26] It's bikeshedding at this point [15:13:03] TheKosmonaut: I'd definitely say "7th of August", but then, I am European and English is a foreign language to me... [15:13:15] BPlayer: filthy European [15:13:30] Don't you have some rich history and culture to bask in? [15:13:35] Shoo [15:13:36] in actual speech sure, but would you *type* it out let's say on an sms? [15:13:44] Eclipser: uh yes? [15:13:52] We aren't using T9 anymore [15:13:58] Why would that make a difference? [15:13:59] I always just use yyyy-mm-dd [15:14:19] Eclipser why would you type a date out on a SMS with someone in another country and not bother to communicate it clearly? [15:14:25] TheKosmonaut: Well, over here we have beer, sausages, pretzels, some less-known traditional dishes... Oh, and cars, yes. Cars. [15:14:53] I'd be more apt to say "we'll be there on the 5th of October" than "we'll be there 10/5/18 [15:15:10] madmerlyn, because people assume things that are clear to them are clear to others? it happens all the time [15:15:20] because communication is about context and adapting to your audience, not about rigid conformity [15:15:29] it happens all the time? [15:15:37] it does, it happened here today [15:15:42] I didn't realize you had such a large number of Americans texting dates at you [15:15:50] "adapting to your audience" .... if only that was true [15:15:52] In Japanese though we'd just type stå [15:16:01] ve2dmn not everyone is good at communication [15:16:04] sms and irc are pretty much equal in this context [15:16:09] So it tend to be less confusing anyway because you say number-month [15:16:09] not really, like at all [15:16:21] ve2dmn: You, as a sysadmin, should be doing that. "That's not a bug, it's a feature. Get used to it!" [15:16:30] madmerlyn: nah they are good at communication. They just don't care about 0.2% of the continent [15:16:39] TheKosmonaut, yeah I like the japanese way [15:16:42] Kosmo: planning way into the future, are you? [15:16:56] Iskierka: June 7? [15:17:00] Not that far [15:17:09] t is that now 2030? [15:17:13] Nope [15:17:13] *not [15:17:21] Heisei 30 [15:17:30] ah okay [15:17:49] ;wa st in English [15:17:51] Haha [15:17:53] TheKosmonaut: Wolfram couldn't understand your gibberish [15:17:55] TheKosmonaut: that was confusing on my J-RAIL pass [15:18:23] As far as I can tell, the Japanese use some sort of really good cryptographic hash function on their calendar, because the years are weird [15:18:33] Imperial years [15:18:35] haha [15:18:38] I understood the '6 moons, 7 suns'... but Hesisei date were a bit confusing [15:18:46] It's gonna change soon [15:18:52] oh? [15:18:53] Current Emperor is abdicating the throne [15:18:55] is the emper [15:18:57] yeah [15:19:02] that's a first right? [15:19:12] As far as I'm aware. [15:19:27] For an Emperor, yes. For a Shogun, probably not. [15:19:28] He's like 800 years old [15:20:00] ve2dmn: Shogun tended to be assassinated before they could abdicate warlordship of any sort [15:20:28] And even in the age of the Shogun, the emperor still existed [15:20:46] https://i.imgur.com/zSGe53p.mp4 [15:20:53] True, but wasn't there one who 'retired' and put his son in his place at the end of the Sengoku Jidai? [15:21:59] Oh yeah [15:22:03] The first Tokugawa [15:22:43] Kinda weird [15:22:55] He abdicated by kept power till he died iirc [15:24:10] shochan [15:24:12] emperors in the medieval period actually abducated in their teens. [15:24:31] there was a lot of repetitive ceremony involved, and they found kids more suitable [15:25:29] did anyone ever tell you that japan is weird? [15:26:23] Eddi|zuHause: dunno. Europe is pretty weird too [15:26:35] that is probably true :p [15:26:37] meanwhile: literally everywhere [15:31:51] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [15:32:35] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkI22V_v-xY [15:32:35] YouTube - Marble Machine X #24 - PLYWOOD GEAR [15:33:00] Did Musk change the soundtrack on us? Originally it was supposed to be Space Oddity.... [15:33:05] yes [15:33:23] but a few days before launch it was starman [15:33:40] actually before the launch there was no word on the suit [15:33:51] so maybe they put in the suit and realized they needed an other music [15:37:59] TheKosmonaut: I think I went to Tokugawa's grave... [15:38:30] i think i beat tokugawa once in civ [15:42:34] TheKosmonaut: also, note that this abdication was a good start in making sure he son didn't have to 'prove' his power [15:42:45] hehe there are a bunch of scott videos [15:43:17] so Star Man is going to be spending his time at Apoapse near the Asteroid Belt, not at Mars altitude [15:43:28] they overshot a bit [15:43:31] close to ceres even [15:43:47] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3niFzo5VLI - He's still up there. And the chat is still retarted. [15:43:47] YouTube - 🔴 LIVE: Starman Driving in Space after Successful Heavy Falcon Launch SpaceX Real-time Updates [15:43:59] *Retarded even [15:44:07] but the stream is not live anymore [15:44:11] Everyone thinks it's CGI rofl [15:44:18] lol [15:44:32] I saw a gif someone made, they put Darth Vader's dog-fight in the bg of Star Man :P [15:47:15] Draconiator: This guys was like "I don't car if it's fake" :D [15:47:23] lol [15:48:17] (Earth comes into view) "SEE, IT'S ZFLAT!" well....cameras can't shoot in 3D you duh-head :P [15:48:36] Draconiator: that's a re-broadcast, no? [15:48:59] original stream was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBr2kKAHN6M [15:49:00] YouTube - Live Views of Starman [15:49:10] Ehhhhhh those people are part of what's wrong with YouTube these days... [15:51:16] I remember this time, it was a few years ago... There was some sort of flat Earth stuff, I think in history class, and I kind of admired how they could think such weird things back in the medieval ages [15:51:32] Little did I know this would become a real thing in the future [15:52:09] even in Columbus' day most people knew the earth wasn't flat, or at least most literate people did. [15:52:33] Action: UmbralRaptor repeatedly stabs Washington Irving. [15:52:50] And now, I just see people legit (yes, legit! This is so ridiculous, I can only imagine this being humanity's biggest joke!) arguing that the Earth /is/ flat [15:52:55] (The guy who pushed the Columbus myth) [15:53:00] Action: APlayer frowns sadly [15:54:07] APlayer: there's however not a lot of evidence that "in the medieval ages" anyone seriously thought the earth was flat. [15:54:27] I guess this is the result of the western, society's boredom that came with wealth and less work to do [15:54:27] APlayer: all that we have is people that said "look how stupid these other people a hundred years ago were" [15:54:41] that's because in the medieval ages hardly anyone could read and write and that's why they're often called the "dark ages" [15:54:45] not a lot of documentation from that era [15:55:10] besides from the few wealthy people, and monks, who could read and write [15:55:28] Eddi: I never was a historian, and whatever happened in the medieval ages, the only era where I would accept people thinking such a thing would be this one. Definitely not out era, though. [15:56:00] well, if you take out the peasants whose "world" consisted of the 3 neighbouring villages and the next town, where it really doesn't matter whether the world was flat or not [15:57:08] there are educated people, who had access to all the knowledge that was transferred, including the knowledge that the earth was round. and seafarers, who would have found it obvious that the sea surface is curved [15:58:43] columbus didn't have to convince anyone that the earth was round, but the general consensus at that time was that the earth was way too large to ship around, and columbus thought it was much smaller [15:58:45] thing is even the educated people lost a lot of knowledge in medieval Europe, but the Earth is round I don't think was one of them [15:58:56] eh before I closed my browser I commented that Earth is shaped like a donut hole.. Seriously, there's wrinkles on the surface representing mountains lol [16:00:18] Well, however sad it might be, not like I can do anything there. Those people will stubbornly believe the Earth is flat and you can't help them anymore [16:00:57] Back to the Starman, then. What I have yet to see is someone joking that this is how people who failed their driver's license end up [16:04:21] So, about Starman: I'm pretty sure that's how the people who fail their driver's license end up [16:04:56] i've never failed my drivers license test, so i don't know... [16:04:58] Action: APlayer crosses another thing off his to-do list [16:08:51] I have failed a drivers test [16:08:55] I passed my skills test for driving on 9/11, heard about the attack on the radio while I was taking the skills test [16:08:59] That's exactly what happens [16:11:07] Forums down? [16:11:13] What happened? [16:11:23] Not-KasperVld, I think that nickname is maybe not allowed in here :) [16:11:34] Idk, getting a NXDomain error from it [16:11:44] I'm not kaspervld tjo [16:11:56] Deddly pls [16:12:07] Just tell me whether the forums are down and I'll leave [16:12:16] Tho* [16:12:30] Try http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ [16:12:42] Kalpa pls [16:12:53] Gimme a yes or no [16:13:05] I don't know the address of the forums so I am in no position to help you [16:13:24] If I did know I could've pasted it on that site, and then posted you the reply with the pasted site in place [16:13:42] forums.kerbalspaceprogram.com [16:13:46] Forum seems fine to me [16:13:55] Why did you not type that into the address I just gave you tho [16:13:56] You're welcome to stay though [16:14:00] K it's on my end then [16:14:10] Thanks [16:14:18] Just use the /nick command to change names [16:14:36] Hmm, need to shorten that URL [16:14:44] Indeed [16:14:54] what, when [16:14:58] what about 1.4? [16:14:59] Maybe remove the KSPEE for ps4 and xbone, does anyone even care about that? [16:16:34] the mission builder... i dont know, i was already flying my own missions for years without that [16:16:48] Not-KasperVld, to change your name, please type: /nick newnickname [16:17:46] otherwise for 15 eur (i am sure it will be that much) it is a huge parts pack, so it is worth it [16:18:40] I'm in two minds about the mission builder [16:18:56] I'm not so interested in making missions, but it will make challenges more interesting [16:19:42] yesm actually you can set up a challenge with the builder [16:19:49] and it confirms the success for itself [16:19:54] Yup [16:20:21] So, March 13 release date [16:20:54] History Pack missions sound fun and educational [16:30:17] any improvement in stock missions would be good honestly. [16:30:33] that is completely different [16:30:46] I'm going to test out a few contract packs, just in case I need to backup my craft and restart my career [16:30:46] i wouldnt really call those missions [16:30:53] oh, true. [16:30:54] 15 USD. What do you think of the price? [16:31:04] i would buy it anyway [16:31:20] i bought ksp in 2014 and i am still playing with it [16:31:25] not bad at all. I've paid less for individual IAPs of several on other games, that add a fraction of the content that stock KSP comes with [16:31:29] Deddly: but I paid that much like 4-5 years ago [16:31:34] I won't pay it again! [16:31:35] (and comes with, updated for free, a long time now) [16:31:39] :P [16:32:12] Deddly: decent price IMHO [16:32:18] I mean, price seems cheap enough, not that it matters for me because I bought KSP from Squad's original store, way, way back [16:32:37] Yeah I think it seems reasonable, too. [16:32:49] also got remotetech, though I'm likely going to dial down the difficulty (at least allow deploying panels and antenae) [16:33:08] I'm also reading up on KOS. [16:33:27] Making tourists able to launch, pitch, circularize in LKO, and reenter "by themselves" would be kind of fun. [16:33:51] Pakaran: that was the reason I wrote my first scripts [16:34:14] hmm [16:34:34] should I show off my TOURS (tourist orbiting and unguided reentry system) craft? [16:34:46] I got it almost entirely recoverable. [16:35:14] I wasn't getting any other tourist missions then suborbital and orbit-around-kerbin at that point, so I wrote a script to do it automatically to fund my space program [16:35:26] approaching part count issues, but I have a clear path to nodes that will fix that [16:35:44] or I'll just get VAB II, but that costs a good fraction of what I've spent this career, total [16:35:58] (And since I was using cheap parts, I made a lose of funds) [16:36:52] I went sort of expensive. [16:37:19] There's a less recoverable version that includes every science part I had at the time, Roverdude's sounding rockets included, for the sake of grabbing high space over kerbin. [16:37:29] Yeah I'm having to sacrigfice a Kerbal to get one of those "Escape Trajectory" ones [16:37:37] the Terrier-based circularization has a lot of spare delta-v [16:37:47] Draconiator: you don't have to [16:37:50] don't they just have to be IN an escape trajectory? [16:38:02] So get them in one, most of the way to SOI edge, and burn retrograde. [16:38:05] That escape trajectory could last only 10sec [16:38:07] this will establish an apoapsis. [16:38:25] Then drop peri, which will be where you left LKO, and fall. [16:38:59] (I thought of that after I rejected the contract, though it was actually test a part in escape trajectory from Kerbin) [16:40:25] Does kOS come with a robotic boot to evict Jeb from the craft during assembly? [16:40:28] :) [16:42:26] I wish [17:15:55] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImoQqNyRL8Y [17:15:55] YouTube - The Incredible Sounds of the Falcon Heavy Launch (BINAURAL AUDIO IMMERSION) - Smarter Every Day 189 [17:20:27] Bleh, I give up on Career mode...I always get stuck early on. [17:21:57] hehe [17:22:04] i like the early part [17:22:08] stuck how? [17:22:13] after that it is not much different than my usual missions [17:24:01] so when can i put the expansion on my steam wishlist and then not buy it for another year or so? [17:39:18] hehe sped up version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0c3sXRaZDA [17:39:19] YouTube - Live Views of SpaceX Starman Speed X1000 [17:45:02] too bad. I was really hoping for a Jeb Bubblehead on that dash [17:46:28] no solar panels on the falcon heavy payload! very kerbal [17:46:41] seems like a rescue mission is required [17:46:42] So release date for the expansion is March 13. Folks who bought through April 2013 get it for free. How do I find out when I got the game, again? [17:47:25] Mathuin: where did you buy it? [17:48:06] unfortunately i bought it more than a year later [17:48:41] so, the current orbit of the Telsa is known. Do we know if it will cross Earth, Mars or any other object at some point? [17:48:59] scott said a date when it will be near earth again [17:49:30] Last I saw gave aphelion just inside Ceres' orbit. [17:49:42] yes [17:51:21] Perturbations from Jupiter will likely result in it being an outer grazer for Mercury eventually. [17:52:01] ve2dmn: steam [17:52:36] Mathuin: then, you can see the transations history [17:52:37] Wait Scott did give a date for a return visit of Starman? [17:52:44] don't think it was on steam before that offer ended [17:53:13] April 2015 was its release date [17:53:33] No, I bought it from Squad. [17:53:36] May 19 2014 [17:53:43] Ah well. $14 isn't so bad. :-) [17:53:45] hehe too late then [17:53:47] same as me [17:54:06] but wait, how does this work? is it a separate game? or is it a mod? [17:54:20] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o APlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [17:56:20] period of 2.404 years, february 2030 is a relatively close to earth date [17:57:04] Althego: I shall put a mark on my Calendar [17:57:11] lol [18:13:55] Aw, I missed the 2013 date by 3 months :) [18:15:32] https://twitter.com/FitzsimmonsAlan/status/961221507216281602 [18:15:33] For those interested in @Spacex #spaceman, I've done a quick orbital integration for the next 10,000 years assuming& https://t.co/6bIsy1oBoZ [18:17:38] Haha, read further: https://twitter.com/richardaralph/status/961288875175006209 [18:17:38] @FitzsimmonsAlan @SpaceX @Tesla Wait a minute! That extra-solar asteroid a few months ago... Did anyone try listen& https://t.co/wipKIbG308 [18:19:16] 2030 is not that far [18:19:35] i think i waited more for the 1999 solar eclipse [18:19:50] but as we get older our time prception changes too [18:21:03] hehe an ejected car, that would be nice [18:21:27] would have been nicer with a direct jupiter slingshot [18:23:13] Considering the Mars shot precision, Elon would not only fail a Jupiter slingshot, he'd probably accidentally get it into the Kupier belt [18:23:22] hehe [18:23:33] (/me is still disappointed by those aim skills) [18:23:34] they never actually aimed for mars [18:23:46] at least it was obvious from some diagrams yesterday [18:24:02] there was not even a remote chance of getting near mars [18:24:16] April 2013 is version 0.19 [18:24:17] mars was not in the correct position [18:24:23] But Mars... SpaceX... Flying cars... This would have been such an awesome stunt, man! [18:24:26] that was before my time :/ [18:24:42] Why not Mars? Launch window is about now, IIRC [18:24:54] i hope at least before i die prices go down sufficiently that i can go into space once [18:25:38] Soon, that is, but given the 1 or so ton of the Tesla compared to the 60 or so tons of payload capacity, a launch now seems rather plausible [18:26:26] Althego: Take a 20,000,000$ loan and die in space disaster [18:26:28] btw, if you remember a time before Eeloo, you have bought the game before 2013 [18:26:32] lol [18:26:39] rig the reentry [18:26:44] and die in the capsule [18:26:46] Mission accomplished [18:27:14] Althego: or go out like the guy who had his ashes put into fireworks [18:27:21] lol [18:28:08] maybe like tombaugh, with ashes on a probe going out of the solar system [18:28:47] "If I cannot get to space in my lifetime, I will do it in my deathtime" [18:29:05] you just need to wait [18:29:09] well... you were in space in your before-time [18:29:26] In fact, we are still technically in space [18:29:33] after a while the sun engulfs earth and later explodes the outer shell, thus scattering you with it [18:29:43] Just in a particular place of it that can be excluded for most practical purposes [18:32:12] hum... I'm reading the KSP version history and I remember most of the updates for 2013 [18:32:50] July 2013: The Astronaut Complex Facility. [18:33:02] i have a serious astronaut complex :9 [18:33:20] Does it even have facilities? [18:33:54] APlayer: no. only the VAB does [18:34:09] True that [18:34:20] hehe, you mean the toilet in the remains of the building? [18:34:45] May 2013: Flags are now available [18:35:12] bool flags = true; :) [18:36:26] "Jeb, how on Kerbin did you manage to completely OBLITERATE the VAB, and somehow keep the bathroom in perfect condition?" [18:37:22] Simple: It's an Indestructoilet [18:37:58] Sons and daughters of Kerbin: Preowned car for sale, free delivery to Asteroid Belt. [18:38:35] Scolar_Visari: I'll give you 1 dollar for it [18:38:40] Tax-free since the deal is completed in neutral seas? [18:39:14] ve2dmn: Deal. You'll have to pay for the tow, however. [18:40:46] Action: APlayer now wants Elon Musk to sell the Tesla [18:41:37] I can totally see there being a short story about an asteroid mining company retrieving it in the far future, mistaking the car for a high metallicity object. [18:41:41] I'd even pay him a few dollars for it, but I'm afraid there will be plenty of people who would bid way more than me [18:42:18] It would be too small to be retrieved by asteroid mining companies [18:43:13] APlayer: Small objects would be preferable to larger objects in many cases, particularly since you can literally stuff them in a bag. [18:43:53] But noone would invest the fuel to retrieve a car-sized object. At least I can't imagine it [18:43:57] Action: Scolar_Visari points to Planetary Resources proposed water aquisition concept http://a.abcnews.com/images/Technology/ht_water_Rich_asteroid_thg_120423_wmain.jpg [18:44:00] APlayer: sell it to the highest bidder... highest determined by current altitude [18:44:13] ve2dmn: Starman already won [18:44:23] APlayer: Fuel investment shouldn't be *too* high in the far future, or even today, if you're using some electro-thermal shenanigans. [18:44:25] And is in the best position (literally) to be the owner [18:44:47] And you can, ahem, skip fuel investment entirely by using a sail. [18:44:59] But honestly, consider: You have a half-fuelled rocket stage with a car on it in space. What do you do? [18:45:35] Scolar_Visari: Perhaps I am thinking way too much now-time, but it's hard to imagine, really [18:46:35] APlayer: We just had a vehicle with an electric propulsion system travel to and orbit two asteroids. [18:46:54] I really wonder how the thing will degrade [18:47:04] Yeah, but it required a special lot of solar panels and stuff [18:47:31] APlayer: Dawn has an empty mass of about 747 kilos. [18:48:31] But it was not towing a car sized asteroid either ;-) [18:48:34] The original Tesla Roadster weighed in at about 1,305 kilos. We could totally propel something like that with existing electric propulsion technology and photovoltaics. [18:49:18] Action: Scolar_Visari notes the Space Roadster probably has somewhat less mass as the batteries were removed. [18:49:32] I'm reminded of the car in the time capsule to turned to a giant pile of rust... [18:49:58] ...I wonder what will be the fate of the Tesla [18:50:08] probably not rust [18:50:58] The most massive electric propulsion spacecraft, Eutelsat 172B, had a launch weight of 3.5 metric tons! [18:51:29] ve2dmn: Some of it will experience micrometeroid erosion. Some parts sensitive to high temperatures should also warp. [18:51:54] Paint? [18:52:22] Perhaps. At least there are no bugs to sully it. [18:52:39] Save for the Space Ameoba. [18:52:44] And Tardigrades.... maybe. [18:53:40] All hail the tardigrades! [18:53:52] I'm sure once we managed to go beyond the Solar system we will find that Tardigrades already colonised everything [18:55:09] So post-human empires will be the Singularity Robots vs the Tardigrade Empire [18:55:26] hehe [18:55:36] Ashes of the Tardigrade Singularity [18:55:53] or the nanorobot swarm vs the borg collective [18:56:13] Don't you get it? The Tardigrades ARE the grey goo! [18:56:28] Also: More on Eutelsat 172B https://directory.eoportal.org/web/eoportal/satellite-missions/content/-/article/eutelsat-172b [18:56:49] Or maybe a mutant of the Radiation-resistant microbe that lives inside Chernobyl [18:57:33] Turns out, the tardigrades are actually the original colonizers of Earth via panspermia. [18:57:46] They, like the Ctan, have been here since before time was time. [18:57:57] But then, who was home? [18:58:22] There is none. They are infinite. [18:59:25] well that is if we humans manage to last for the next thousand years... [19:00:15] The Tardigrades are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before them, we are nothing. [19:01:41] You know that the codename for the Tardigrade In Space experiment was TardIS ? [19:01:50] Coincidence? I think not! [19:02:42] Huh. [19:03:46] Draconiator: I can't think of many plausible scenarios that would wipe out hte entire species without annihilating the Earth's biosphere in turn. [19:04:37] None of which we could engineer, of course. [19:05:12] we cant even eliminate all the insects we want to kill [19:06:06] Althego: Further evidence Starship Troopers should've ended with an Arachnid victory [19:07:27] https://78.media.tumblr.com/c17d594a7a0d60084524f9c9818f37ae/tumblr_nw8yce1Wl71rwn6y8o1_500.gif [19:07:46] hehe [19:07:49] what is this from [19:08:26] google [19:10:35] Huh . . . [19:10:36] http://wat-if.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/elon-musk-says-spacex-to-focus-on-bfr-following-falcon-heavy-launch-1050x600.jpg [19:10:47] yes [19:10:53] so probably no around the moon trip [19:11:05] because no human rated falcon heavy [19:11:08] :/ [19:11:13] i wanted to see that [19:11:26] http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/but-why.gif [19:11:34] Maybe Falcon 9 Full thrust is enough? [19:11:52] dont think so [19:12:02] Althego: The Moon trip was already doubtful as it was, though Musk seems to elude to a BFR effort instead. Which is . . . Eh, doubtful too? [19:12:11] Althego, our failure in that regard is probably serendipitous [19:12:17] Silly ve2dmn, just use a Proton-M instead! [19:12:24] on account of ecosystem collapse being Generally Considered Bad [19:12:47] You don't dock the BFR to the ISS, you dock the ISS to the BFR [19:13:30] As for tardigrades... I really want someone to find out they can have an epigenetic shift that allows them to mutate quickly [19:13:47] If that happens, I say they were genetically engineered to colonize planets [19:13:55] Action: Scolar_Visari notes Space Adventures previously discussed an Earth orbit rendezvous with a Soyuz vehicle and Proton-M launched propulsion/habitat stage for a Lunar flyby http://www.spaceadventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/circumlunar1.jpg [19:14:14] APlayer: The tardigrades are actually Tyranid vanguard organisms. [19:15:04] Given Roscosmos' recent financial woes and shift to support further tourist launches to the Space Station, I can see them being more receptive to Space Adventure's plan if it's ever resurrected. [19:15:22] Space Adventure, that's a name I haven't heard in years. [19:16:28] There will supposedly be a resumption in tourists flights this year, and Roscosmos is even offering EVAs. [19:17:52] Ah, they must have upgraded their Astronaut Complex. [19:20:25] Rumors abound of making part of the Russian Orbital Segment into a teeny space hotel. [19:20:58] Using, of course, modules that haven't even launched yet. [19:21:12] why is the iss still expanding? [19:21:23] there will be soem new modules still [19:22:10] Althego: Uknown. Some, ah, parties want to begin retirement in 2024, but others are reluctant to do so. Retirement will undoubtedly be expensive and time consuming, and getting rid of it would eliminate support for commercial launches ala COTS. [19:22:26] No one's ever decommisioned an object that large! [19:22:35] maybe in parts [19:23:18] That'd be difficult, especially given we no longer have a convenient system in place to remove them and propel them away from the rest. [19:24:12] Can't just chuck them away with the arm, nor is there any working propulsion system on the station outside Zvezda (Zarya having not fired her rockets in years). [19:25:59] This also begs the question: How was Roscosmos supposed to move its modules from the ISS to Mir-2 under its previous concepts? [19:27:00] Recommision Buran!? [19:27:05] lol [19:27:12] no that is dead [19:27:15] Scolar_Visari: You don't need much propulsion capability to move things around LEO [19:27:34] Use a soyuz cargo capsule with more fuel tanks and you can move a few modules with it [19:27:53] Magnets [19:28:13] Or get out and push? [19:28:15] APlayer: What? Eek gad yes you do! Particularly for docking! [19:28:26] Sorry? [19:28:39] Docking uses up horrendous amounts of propellant. [19:28:51] How do the Soyuz capsules dock, then? [19:28:57] They get two chances. [19:29:17] If you fill one with fuel instead of cargo, you get 10 chances [19:29:59] APlayer: You really can't fill them with anymore fuel without a redesign. Progress extra propellant tanks, for instance, don't go to the instrumentation module. [19:30:17] What's stopping them to deorbit the entire thing in 1 go? [19:30:20] ve2dmn: A worry it might actually hit something. Again, it's fairly large. [19:30:43] The Pacific is also very large [19:31:19] But I get it, if it breaks up and each piece lands a different place... [19:31:45] Scolar_Visari: Well, they do have some capability of fuel transfer, don't they? Also, sure, you'd need modifications. But Soyuz seems to be such a kind of thing that can, with correct application of a hammer, be transformed into anything ranging from tanks (the war machinery kind of tanks) to rockets [19:32:00] Deorbiting it all at once may also not be possible with existing equipment. Zvezda doesn't normally need much propellant. [19:32:48] APlayer: Only Progress spacecraft (and previously, the ESA ATVs) had propellant transfer capability. I think existing variants of Progress store less propellant than they used to. [19:33:11] Likewise, a lot of that's just for modest orbital adjustments. [19:33:14] Also, why not revive the ATV programme, even? [19:34:15] But anyway, of course you need modifications if you want to make a tug out of a cargo launcher. But I think they stay in reasonable budget limits [19:34:41] Progress-M1 can store a little less than 2 metric tons of propellant, but the last launch of one of those was in 2004. [19:34:41] hmm [19:35:07] I think I changed enough mods to back up craft and restart my save. [19:35:11] Well, as long as they work, why not launch a new one in 2018? :D [19:35:13] APlayer: THe ATV equipment's being used for the SLS upper stage, and only five were ever launched. [19:35:53] ATV, Progress, whatever. Those are vehicles already developed. In comparison to developing a new one, building one seems rather trivial [19:36:16] APlayer: ATV wouldn't be trivial to rebuild, as a lot of the equipment and tooling is probably gone. [19:37:20] But, again, if you wanted to develop a new vehicle, you'd not only have to get new tooling, you'd also have to develop a vehicle [19:38:18] (Also, that's a thing I was wondering about for quite some time - why create an ATV and only fly it a few times before retiring it?) [19:38:21] That'd essentially be the issue with restarting ATV development, particularly since what remains is being used for somethign else. [19:38:51] APlayer: Because it was expensive? Each required a hefty Ariane 5 launch, though they did haul a respectable amount of cargo and could also refuel Zvezda ala Progress. [19:39:17] Well, the shuttle minus crew was cheaper? [19:40:04] Shuttle can't stay up in orbit for more than a couple weeks at a time, ATV could also automatically dock (something only Progress and Soyuz does). [19:41:05] The ESA had pitched usage of the ATV as the basis for an LEO crew vehicle, but nothing ever came to that ditto with the JAXA HTVs [19:44:39] what, pz myers has a youtube channel? ok, i am not that into anti creationists lately (gave up on that some time ago). but look, tardigrades from christmas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i39-IwN2pV0 [19:44:40] YouTube - TardigradeEvoDevo [19:45:43] Should've been Tardigrades for Festivus. [19:48:31] Ahem, in any event, I wouldn't take the proposed ISS retirement date of 2024 very seriously at this point. In fact . . . I would be skeptical of any similar suggestions for direction at NASA for manned spaceflight till after 2020. [19:48:41] Action: Scolar_Visari mutters something about regime changes. [19:48:50] hehe, another video from him, are humans animals, and there is ikamusume on the thumbnail [19:49:05] but i dont have time for this now [19:49:14] too sleepy because of the falcon heavy launch [19:50:20] I was actually surprised to learn about some of the people at school who apparently also watched the FH launch [19:50:37] I got my wife to watch at her desk at work, she especially liked the landing. [19:50:37] APlayer: Even flat Earthers watched! [19:51:00] APlayer: my entire office was 'meh' [19:51:36] The ones I'd supposed would do it (the typical physics people I hang out with usually) did not do it, while some people like, fully not related to physics or even spaceflight were all excited about it the next day [19:51:54] That is, today [19:52:49] meanwhile flat earthers already stated that the launch and the video of the car was fake [19:52:56] Shame about their steam rocket. [19:52:59] hehe [19:53:02] Only one person matched my expectations, vs. two more I expected to watch + two more I totally did not expect to watch [19:53:35] Althego: Well, tell me the time you doubted they would do it [19:53:37] Althego: You also get a fair share like this: "The rocket is nothing compared to the Saturn V or the Shuttle. We are 50 years behind where we should be because of primative chemical rockets." [19:53:53] This is another few million of people that /did/ behave as expected [19:54:08] we could call the last few decades the middle ages of rocketry [19:54:23] Not sure we arrived at the renaissance yet [19:54:41] And, my favorite: "It will cost NASA 1000% more money to build the same rocket, these Gov't agencies are milking taxpayers too much. We need to completely privatize NASA, and even the military if possible." [19:54:44] Certainly a lot of stuff going on, but we're still kind of stuck [19:54:51] milking taxpayers? [19:54:58] the nasa is 0.5% of the fedeeral budget [19:55:05] ^ [19:55:07] and this leads to politics unfortunately [19:55:11] ^ [19:55:14] ^^ [19:55:17] Althego: Contrary to popular belief, the Middle Ages were not a period of technological stagnation. Or, at least, anymore than most of the rest of human history. [19:55:36] Action: APlayer shuts up because of accidental involvement in politics talk. Shame upon him. [19:56:40] Anyway, let's talk about rockets [19:57:04] I've noticed a fun contrast there. Falcon Hevay vs. that tiny Indian launcher, whatever it is called [19:57:06] You got your improvements in metallurgy (full steel plate FTW), architecture (lets make those windows HIGHER and make more ARCHES!), agriculture (better crop rotation!) and chemistry (hurray for Alchemy!). [19:57:20] Scolar_Visari: all of human history up till about 1900 was a age of technological stagnation [19:57:42] Scolar_Visari: But all of this happened in the short period of just 1000 years [19:57:43] oren: Ah, I would say about mid to early 19th Century. [19:57:45] Eh, the majority of an exponential curve looks stagnated. [19:57:50] Totally no tech stagnation visible [19:57:55] Or, rather, 18th Century even. [19:58:27] Action: Scolar_Visari points to the Agricultural Revolution that made later population surpluses possible. [19:58:38] 17th and 18th century created the math and knowledge tools necessary for the subsequent developpement [19:58:45] Ancient greece or rome seem to have achieved much more than the medieval people, TBH [19:58:51] APlayer: Hah! NO. [19:58:55] I mean, in middle ages tech advanced so slowly that majority of people were not aware it was happening [19:59:13] even noe it is notthat fast [19:59:16] APlayer: The Greek and Roman achievements in science are, to be frank, among the very most exagerrated components of Classical history. [19:59:22] except of those phones that come out each year [19:59:26] what else has changed? [19:59:39] They would for example paint paintings of Ancient Greek battles and show the same weapons and armour that they themselves used [20:00:09] they didn't have this concept that the technology was different back then [20:00:17] Scolar_Visari: Water distribution systems? Building technologies? [20:00:29] APlayer: Yeah, Medieval societies had those. Architecture was notably superior in spite of a lack of concrete. [20:01:05] Those Gothic churches, for instance, let in a lot more light and had a lot more interior space than Classical basilica, and most Greek temples (as their Roman and Egyptian equivalents) had little useful interior space. [20:01:17] Test [20:01:26] My message failed to deliver, apparently [20:01:33] "/Actual/ cures for diseases, rather than "let's chop this guy's limbs off, surely it will relieve his back pain"?" [20:01:43] for that matter, there are medieval paintings of Trojan war whowing Troy as a contemporary medieval castle [20:01:46] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Supernovy' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [20:02:32] Roman and Greek agriculture was also quite inferior, lacking the same volume of crop rotation and using inferior scratch plows. [20:02:33] they were actually advancing slowly but the concept of advancing technology did not exist [20:02:36] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Badie' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [20:02:50] Also, what about population-%-literacy? [20:03:27] Aplayer: Roman society was probably not more literate. Keep in mind that most Romans were poor farmers the same as their Medieval successors. [20:03:43] APlayer: well the thing is our concept of Roman society is based on things written by the uppermost echelons of that society [20:04:14] consuls, emperors, great generals and popular wirters [20:04:18] Action: Scolar_Visari notes no more than 10% of Romans at best lived in cities, with much of that concentrated in Rome itself courtesy of grain shipments from Egypt. [20:04:32] romans didnt have rockets [20:04:36] There's also that matter of cities being horrendously unpleasant places to live. [20:04:37] talk about ancient china instead [20:04:47] LOL [20:04:53] APlayer: ancient china had even less literacy [20:04:53] Or Ancien Korea [20:04:58] China, this /actual/ first spacefaring nation [20:05:10] Had rockets when western society was just dawning [20:05:20] APlayer: most chinese NOBLES could not read or write [20:05:24] Action: Scolar_Visari shudders at the thought of living in Rome at its, "apex" during the Pax Romana. [20:06:11] I would be dead at 15 in any other times then modern medecine: I don't have my appendix anymore :/ [20:06:46] ve2dmn: Well, at least you'd have lead flavored wine. [20:07:01] Not because of the pipes, but because lead was used as a flavoring agent sometimes. [20:07:03] this would be great if I were better at making planes. https://imgur.com/a/Nr5WX [20:07:03] https://i.imgur.com/dX4Ke3e.png [20:07:09] Action: APlayer pictures ve2dmn's appendix laughing in a cartoon-evil manner [20:07:14] Scolar_Visari: yeah, I heard about that [20:07:26] the Romans invented the first diet sweetener, technically. [20:07:37] Action: Scolar_Visari seems to think literacy in ancient China (that is, around the Han Dynasty) was quite high. [20:08:13] ve2dmn: Pipes were used in Medieval times, though lead was probably used more for construction on water proof/fire reistant tiles [20:08:30] Scolar_Visari: not really. they had a special class of bureaucrats that were literate, much like the church in medival europe [20:08:42] I seem to recall a few stories of Gothic churches catching on fire and raining streams of molten lead. [20:08:51] There is a whole research on the idea of why Britan started the Industrial revolution instead of china [20:09:20] How is lead good for fire-proof places? Wouldn't it melt rather quickly compared to iron? [20:09:41] APlayer: iron is expensive [20:09:54] like, really expensive compared to lead [20:10:06] Well, so is titanium, but we use it in favour of lead on rockets [20:10:20] Oren: Yes really. That special class of bureacrats was very large.. [20:10:24] (Exaggerated, sure, but I think I got the point across?) [20:10:40] Copying works by hand in China was also more popular than using printed materials, it seems [20:11:10] Scolar_Visari: Wait, when did the Chinese start printing? [20:11:14] this is my almost-recoverable TOURS vehicle, to give some idea. https://imgur.com/a/8ce5l [20:11:14] https://i.imgur.com/oqJg2qB.jpg [20:11:30] APlayer: also iron is in high deman for making swords and armour and shit for the nobility [20:11:47] I actually know how to get the *one part* I need to recover the selected cluster of boosters (the middle one is a double size mod part, but not thrust limited). [20:11:48] APlayer: Yes, they invented the printing press albeit sans moveable type. [20:12:01] but I think I'm going to move everything over to a new career game [20:12:05] Typically using wooden blocks, I believe. [20:12:13] Pakaran: why a new game? [20:12:45] ve2dmn, because I changed some contract mods, and the current contracts ended up in a weird state. [20:12:55] I guess I could try timewarping a week. [20:12:56] Action: Scolar_Visari notes with amusement that written works in the Medieval world were often copied by people who could not read. [20:13:39] (One mod I really like wants an actual pilot with each tourist. TOURS isn't really designed for that, but with a node that gives a small passenger can, which I'm close to, it shouldn't be tough [20:13:43] How can you not learn reading if you copy books? [20:13:53] Like, learn reading by accident [20:14:04] Scolar_Visari: well there's also the fact that in europe, being "literate" meant knowing Latin [20:14:20] I know that at least in the British Isles, serf certainly could (and often did) learn to read. [20:14:43] (in the sense that they weren't forbidden, I mean) [20:14:43] oren: The Lollards would beg to differ! [20:15:34] Vernacular literature (writing in the same langageyou speak) was like, a part of the whole renaissance thing [20:16:05] Not just Martin Luther? [20:16:06] i think my slippers are deteriorating rapidly, because i get an abundance of electric charge buildup lately, and it is increaig [20:16:43] Isn't that kind of ironic? We are living in the 21st century, just enjoyed the most spectacular rocket launch for years, are actually chatting in a place with many rocketry enthusiasts, and what are we chatting about? Illiteracy in the medieval ages :D [20:16:46] oren: The Lollardy movement was in the 14th Century. [20:16:54] Pakaran: no, also Dante [20:17:06] APlayer: welcome to the inter-tubes [20:17:39] I have a full dramatic reading audiobook of the Divine Comedy I've been meaning to listen to. [20:18:44] Scolar_Visari: I think EU4 does a good job modeling the Renaissance as a thing that originates in italy and somes to your country either early or late depending on where you are. [20:19:12] oren: 14th Century England probably doesn't count as being in the high Renaissance. [20:20:02] Scolar_Visari: I've played as england, sometimes I don't get to embrace the renassance until the 1500's [20:20:04] I like TOURS because the paying customers also volunteer for life support testing in the guise of complementary food. https://imgur.com/a/va5AG [20:20:04] https://i.imgur.com/ad9NJ6f.png [20:20:20] like, late 1500's [20:20:56] You had plenty of vulgar (ahem) literature prior to the Renaissance in England. Chaucer! [20:20:59] (No, I don't know how they reach it. Maybe a little glovebox or something?P [20:21:17] we had our own renaissance [20:21:18] Also: More Lollards. Luther was a bit late to that party. [20:21:23] Iskierka: As did the Scots! [20:23:09] Scolar_Visari: of course you can do these cheaty things like declaring no-cb on a little italian duchy and taking a province with the renassance already fully present [20:23:10] Yes, but none of the above envisioned bigger missiles as an important national goal! [20:23:23] (joking) [20:24:05] oren: None of that really matters. I typically uplift humanity in that other Paradox game and teach them the glorious language of Blorg scent smoking. [20:24:21] They can write in any language, so long as it is in the original Blorg. [20:24:41] I am interested in ideas to improve TOURS :) [20:25:14] Action: Scolar_Visari still recoils in horror upon realizing that the Civilization model of technological progress is probably how most people understand human history. "It goes from archery to wheels, see!" [20:25:21] Pakaran: use a crew can instead of a capule [20:25:30] hehe deadpiool trailer [20:26:14] Scolar_Visari: lol. [20:26:28] "Lol those mesoamericans so primitive!" [20:26:37] a realistic model would have a *fat* tree base [20:26:47] oren, the main issue there would be reducing the SAS need right after first stage sep. And a biiit more tech than I have in this game, but it's on the list :) [20:27:06] Pakaran: use RCS [20:27:08] Iskierka: I like to think of a changing spiderweb complete with dead ends, pitfalls and the occasional portal to Hell. [20:27:40] Action: Scolar_Visari hesitates to build the Event Horizon wonder. [20:27:40] RCS is often superior in both weight requirement and contorl authority [20:28:14] I can only recommend a MM patch to nerf your reaction wheels [20:28:18] Yes, I could achieve a science victory upon its completion, but then I might lose my eyes and sanity. Not strictly in that order. [20:28:38] * Scolar_Visari notes with amusement that written works in the Medieval world were often copied by people who could not read. <-- how is that strange? lots of computer programs are copied by people who cannot program [20:28:46] Probably the best thing I have installed in terms of simplicity-to-new-gameplay ratio [20:28:59] Eddi: They can at least recognize what particular letters are. [20:29:10] APlayer: I use RCS a lot even in stock. [20:29:24] oren, thanks [20:29:34] Copying-and-pasting en masse is a lot different than writing out individual letters for a Gospel book! [20:29:45] and i would include a large portion of people who stitch together stackoverflow snippets until it "works" [20:30:01] APlayer, I do think I'm overusing the built-in pod reaction wheel. It "shouldn't" really be torquing a 5 tonne second stage onto a different near-hypersonic heading? [20:30:20] And Medieval manuscript writing took a long, long time. Also: Parchment was hideously espensive. [20:30:22] oren: Prior to the weakening of reaction wheels, I used RCS only for docking manuevers or, rarely, as a small course adjustment thruster [20:30:39] Last I checked, programs are not written on the tanned flesh of baby cattle. [20:30:46] Scolar_Visari: they probably could even pronounce the words, just didn;t knwo latin [20:30:53] I do wonder how KSP reaction wheels work. [20:30:54] Pakaran: The MM patch is really simple, and as I said, I can only recommend it [20:31:04] still, that only means you have to be a careful person, not a literate person, to copy something [20:31:11] Adds a new layer of planning to your missions basically for free [20:31:14] oren: Not if they were completely illiterate, which was often the case. This can result in amusing errors. [20:31:21] APlayer, semi-saturable reaction wheels? [20:31:23] or another? [20:31:41] I made one myself, but semi-saturable RWs is fine too, IIRC [20:32:15] RCS is superior for most missions anyway [20:33:00] Pakaran: Here is mine, but really, any of them work: https://spacedock.info/mod/879/Reaction%20Wheel%20Rebalance [20:33:51] medieval manuscripts were not copied with specialised tools that only allow finite inputs from known valid sets and which allow flawless duplication of sections at-will [20:33:53] APlayer, thanks! [20:34:22] sure, you could probably make copies using a *printing press* while illiterate quite easily. With a pen? [20:34:32] (or more often, quill) [20:34:52] I could trace japanese characters well enough for a native to read them, I suspect. [20:35:29] Eddi: There were many cases when the copyists could not actually make heads or tails of the particular letters in particular texts. Nice handwriting was not universal. [20:35:31] only with difficulty and they'd know you weren't literate. stroke order matters and becomes apparent in details [20:35:46] ah [20:36:12] (that would likely be hidden with a pencil or such, but that wouldn't be these nice manuscripts) [20:36:13] Iskierka: They should've stuck to Times New Roman in large font. [20:37:31] And, to be frank, even with well written materials some letters can resemble others because spacing between letters and indeed entire words was often marginal (teehee). [20:38:00] Which resulted in the common error of copying a letter or even whole words too many times or not at all. [20:38:10] thus the whole confusion with thorn being printed as "y" [20:38:24] No, that was german presses not having a þ [20:38:29] and renaissance faire types STILL are writing "ye olde colde beeyre", which literally nobody did? [20:38:48] well, not "beeyre" [20:38:54] aah [20:39:51] Action: Scolar_Visari seems to remember whole Bibles (a rarity indeed) requiring entire herds of animals to produce. [20:39:55] and it did happen for a while as þ was unlearned before "th" was applied [20:40:07] "Ye old" was definitely used but still pronouned "the old" [20:41:09] Iskierka: I feel even worse for people having to learn Egyptian Hieroglyphs. [20:41:40] at least "cat" was easy [20:42:08] "What is it?" "A meow." "Why?" "Meow" "Oh, okay." [20:42:39] Behold symbols that can be both phonetic and logoraphic at the same time! [20:43:58] No wonder the Egyptians attributed a certain level of magic to their language. [20:44:31] egyptian hieroglyphs are tricky on several levels. for one, a hieroglyph could mean the object depicted, or a sound/word part, depending on context, and the other is that vowels were not written down (like hebrew and arabic), so it only makes sense if you actually speak the language fluently [20:45:09] Or it can mean all those things at the exact same time! [20:45:36] The Arrival takes language to the next level [20:46:01] "See, if we put this cat next to ANOTHER cat on the cartouche, that means our Pharoah is the cat's meow!" [20:47:02] Eric: I used to speak in splotchy alien ink language, but I lost my appendage responsible for discharging writing fluids. [20:47:29] its not about the ink [20:47:48] its about the concept of time - you don't need the ink :) [20:48:00] there's this scene in the original stargate movie where he tries to decipher some hieroglyphs on the other planet, and at some point his "wife" starts to correct his pronunciation [20:49:24] that was before the series where they magically spoke every local language immediately [20:49:47] Action: Scolar_Visari wriggles their tentacles in agitation, as their people have for ages. [20:50:09] Eddi: I liked the movie a lot. I, in fact, still have the ORIGINAL DVD with its crappy resolution. [20:50:35] in stargate movie daniel ackson says that it is easy once you got the vowels. bot nobody knows about them becauase they were not written :) [20:50:35] didn't you know that contemporary american english was the intergalactic language of every backward and advanced civilization [20:50:36] I should probably watch that while running Aisling propaganda tonight. [20:50:55] Eric: I thought Star Wars indicated British English is the one True language? [20:51:20] Althego: It also helps to bring 5th Avenue bars. [20:51:53] Action: Scolar_Visari ponders if Yahoo's army of commentators are aware that SpaceX is not publically traded. [20:52:47] some detail that was a lost in the german translation was that in later seasons they had international team members (like canadians) who pronounced things like "ZPM" differently than their american colleagues, like in stargate atlantis [20:53:27] zed pm [20:53:33] hehe [20:53:34] yes [20:53:39] Teehee, German translation. Fun fact: The film's director is German. [20:54:13] Said director also went on to make a film about the American Revolution, the Patriot, that was about as accurate as Braveheard (translation: Not at all). [20:54:30] Should've done a Stargate sequel. [20:54:35] movies about historic events are not accurate? [20:54:41] since when? [20:55:03] also, weren't they about to do a stargate remake as a trilogy or something? [20:55:18] i hate this decade of ramkes [20:55:26] cantthey come up with soemthing that is actually good? [20:55:34] Eddi: They weren't simply inaccurate. They might as well been depicting alien redcoats invading America. That would've been more believable, too. [20:55:44] Althego: Remakes are an old hat. See Cape Fear. [20:55:46] and not just miminc something that was good and make a worse version? [20:56:14] Althego: remaking things is not a new thing. hollywood is in a 20-year-ish remake cycle [20:56:16] Action: Scolar_Visari almost forgot the Akira Kurosawa Americanized remakes. [20:56:20] since at least the 60s [20:56:37] Seven Samurai -> Magnificent Seven for the win. [20:56:53] Amusingly, the latter just got a remake with Denzel Washington and Chriss Pratt. [20:58:06] also, none of the popular disney titles that they claim extremely protective copyright on, were acutally original works [20:59:06] Althego: I should also note that we tend to forget bad films from the distant past. It's not like they're really making a larger number of bad films vs. good ones. [20:59:07] and on that matter, the brothers grimm also did not write these stories [20:59:21] Eddi: I heard they stole them and murdered the ACK@ [20:59:22] they just wrote them down [21:00:01] hehe [21:00:06] i mean disney, of courrse [21:00:17] many old stories in that [21:01:50] Action: Scolar_Visari tries to imagine a film depicting the true orgins of Homer's Greek epics which involve the blind poet and murder. [21:02:17] also fun fact: the brothers grimm claimed that these were old german folk stories, but their main source wasn't actually german, it was a huguenotte immigrant woman from france [21:05:26] Soon, only Visari will be left. [21:06:49] What on Mars? "Bigger was not better for the Bismark , and Rockets have only gotten BIGGER , but no real advancements other than size has happened since the V-2" [21:08:35] Everything in that run-on sentence is wrong. EVERYTHING. [21:10:15] Yes, no real advancements other than the fact that modern rocket propulsion is superior in every way. [21:12:02] Action: Scolar_Visari mutters something about miniaturization of satellites. [21:17:15] dude, it's "Bismarck" for starters... [21:17:50] That sentence is a perfect example of fractal wrongness. [21:17:57] "One CMG unexpectedly failed after approximately 1.3 years and one [21:17:57] developed anomalous behavior after approximately six years. Both units were returned to earth for failure [21:17:57] investigation. " [21:18:03] dang RL is hardcore. [21:18:09] https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20100021932.pdf [21:19:35] i have this atlas from the 1980s which depicted the various rockets and other spacecraft for size comparisons [21:23:27] "The Energia blew up on both flights and a third time without getting off the pad." [21:23:34] Action: Scolar_Visari blinks [21:25:11] The Bismark person likes to CAPITALIZE words they think are IMPORTANT. [21:29:51] Also incorrect in history it seems, too. Contrary to their claim that George Washington never served in government prior to becoming president of the United States, Washington had experience as a Virginia legislator. [21:30:13] Also: Wouldn't being a general constitute government service? [21:30:30] There is as big a gap between public service and military service as there is in music and military music. [21:31:36] not every good general is a good political leader [21:31:59] leaving questions open whether washington was either of those... for that i don't know enough about him [21:33:25] hm, apparently in 1980 the world population was 4.36 Mrd people [21:33:26] Eddi: Better than nothing I suppose? [21:34:11] A lot of Washington's military successes consisted of not losing. [21:34:20] A good initial standard. [21:34:28] IE: Avoid destruction by the British Army. [21:34:30] He also did a great job actually leading individuals and working with other countries. [21:34:40] POLAND SAVES AMERICA! [21:34:57] France did its part too. [21:35:05] I just like to mention Poland. [21:35:12] Don't forget Spanish cash. [21:35:22] And time travelers. [21:35:46] Gathering all the Brithaters, herding them in the right direction, and dealing with the fact that a third of Americans didn't actually want to stop being subjects... not a bad job in the end. [21:36:12] I, for one, welcome the new tax on tea. It's about time we did our part! [21:36:49] No taxation without representation? Nonsense? The Whigs only represent their own interests! [21:38:00] and the literacy in china in 1975 was estimated between 40 and 60% [21:38:13] A Great Leap Forward indeed. [21:39:07] it's the only country marked as "estimated", for some reason [21:39:21] Eddi: That's technically around the time as the Cultural Revolution. [21:39:32] Estimating many things in PRC in either of those times is . . . problematic. [21:39:33] there's a "no data" on western sahara, though [21:39:48] Western Sahara's in dispute. Morocco still holds de facto control. [21:41:40] Action: Scolar_Visari ponders the great difficulty in estimating literacy in a temporal range where tens of millions of people, er, "disappeared." [21:42:25] that's still an error of <1% :p [21:43:01] Middle of the line figures for Great Leap Forward deaths (primarily from starvation) hover around 30 million. [21:43:21] ok, 2% :p [21:43:21] 5% of the population at the time. [21:44:19] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Dman979' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [21:44:38] i don't see a figure for population of china here, only asia (without USSR) combined [21:44:53] Cause Asia is totes just a single homogeneous country! [21:45:19] Action: Scolar_Visari continues to revile the nebulous reference to, "The Middle East" that somehow includes Persia, Arabia and Egypt. [21:45:23] no, but the soviet union is apparently a separate continent :p [21:45:39] Japan, China, Indonesia . . . ALL THE SAME! [21:46:07] Scolar_Visari, I have a Polish-American friend who's really, really saddened by the fact that they used to be a major power, and now... win at soccer. [21:46:22] Ok, football, or futball. Less brain damage than ours. But even so. [21:46:38] More from the Bismark individual: "Horizontal Launch is Cheaper , Safer , and does not REQUIRE the Load ( Cargo or people ) to experience HIGH G FORCES . Space X might get the Publicity and Government Money , but the Horizontal Launch will eventually be the WAY to Go . You use LIFT to REPLACE much of the THRUST REQUIRED for vertical take off." [21:46:50] ("futball" is probably a Spanishism) [21:47:06] Pakaran: They just need to start another union with Lithuania is all. [21:47:08] the "continents" in this table are "Asia (without USSR)", "Africa", "Central and South America", "Europe (without USSR)", "USSR", "North America" and "Australia and Oceania" (in order of population) [21:47:26] Scolar_Visari, Is this one of those things where it helps that Kerbin is 600 km radius and thrice as dense as gold? [21:47:36] Because spaceplanes seem to involve a lot of those things. [21:47:41] Pakaran: This person has probably never played KSP. [21:48:18] Action: Scolar_Visari mutters something about spaceplanes, lift and drag at hypersonic velocities. [21:48:39] hold W, go up! [21:49:12] If you're not experiencing HIGH G FORCES, you're probably not going into space today. [21:49:18] Or ever. [21:49:57] Scolar_Visari, also you can't do a circularization burn with air breathing engines. [21:50:09] i watched this video recently where they explained how parabola flights work [21:50:26] where they have like 30s of 0G and 30s of 1.8G or something [21:50:34] isn't it basically the same as a rollercoaster coasting over a parabola? [21:50:53] Besides that actual roller coasters typically *do* accelerate upwards while, say, climbing the second hill? [21:51:00] Pakaran: They seem to also think that horizontal launch is superior whether or not you use an airbreathing engine. [21:51:35] and because they use a more or less regular plane for that, they have to have someone that clicks away all the "wait, it's probably not right that you speed towards the ground that quickly" warnings :p [21:51:37] Oh. Well, then. [21:52:34] also, I want to say SpaceX is already down to 3G or so? [21:52:38] The fact that you must also deal with forces in one more direction is also an issue for horizontal launch. Now your propellant tanks have to be extra strong! [21:52:46] which really isn't "high G force" unless you're talking about 80 year old passengers [21:52:47] Pakaran: Need moar throttle range. [21:53:29] Scolar_Visari, oh yeah. While learning to use FAR (including now) I've noticed a certain tendency towards, erm, spontaneous decoupling between fuel tanks. [21:54:11] Use quantum struts! [21:54:13] If I were launching on Earth, I'd just go to 10 or 15 km before pitching and forget about it, honestly. [21:55:16] of course, I'm also dealing with parameters where ditching a full tank of fuel unused is hundreds of funds. [21:57:11] "You use LIFT to REPLACE much of the THRUST REQUIRED for vertical take off." [21:57:13] Hrm . . . [21:57:20] Still not into space. [21:57:54] Action: Scolar_Visari looks at the particularly stubby-to-nonexistant wings envisioned for most SSTO spaceplanes ala HOTOL. [21:58:37] I've seen Earth's atmosphere to radius ratio compared with the skin of an apple. [21:59:06] and that's prolly not far off. [21:59:11] Action: Scolar_Visari goes off to find commenter and correct them in person. [22:00:04] Pakaran: if this is the diameter of earth: (------------.------------) [22:00:17] Pakaran: then the ISS is around here (------------.------------)· [22:01:56] Scolar_Visari: well, they probably have the stubby wings of the space shuttle in mind, but i guess those were meant for landing and not for takeoff [22:03:06] aren't they to present more area to the reentry plasma, as much as to provide actual lift? [22:04:08] i don't really know anything about reentry physics [22:05:04] in physics class my brain stopped at the point where the teacher said "because of the drag the spacecraft gets faster" [22:05:55] i switched majors away from physics somewhere around the 200 level. [22:06:16] Wait, Earth's radius is like 6300km, and it's 100km from the surface of the earth to "space". [22:06:19] That's one thick apple skin. [22:06:41] I was thinking that orange is probably closer. [22:06:52] Do we have video of the center core of the Falcon Heavy slamming down? [22:06:52] assume a 5 cm radius orange with a 3 mm skin [22:06:56] Yeah, I could buy orange. [22:07:01] that would be, actually, still too much [22:07:18] unless you assume the skin is all the way up at "stable enough to use" orbits. [22:07:31] I'm sure I'm paraphrasing XKCD. [22:07:43] I think the Karman line @ 100 km is like 70km in KSP [22:07:57] 70 km is the edge of the atmosphere yeah [22:08:27] I think the Karman line, theoretically, is the point at which, to fly around the world, a plane needs to use orbit, not lift, however big its wings? [22:08:41] which might be in the 60s somewhere [22:09:01] Pakaran: your recollection matches the Wikipedia page [22:09:27] cool [22:09:28] Needing to exceed orbital velocity to generate adequate lift. [22:10:34] KSP mostly truncates the range between hypersonic and orbital. [22:10:44] It's a game, not a simulator. [22:10:48] IIRC, proposed scramjets are at ~2kph KSP orbital velocity. [22:10:50] and agreed [22:11:39] I am now wondering how much of an influence the Karman line's name had on the given name of all kerbals. [22:12:55] Hmm...... 2030 they could recover this car. [22:13:04] Is that its next visit? [22:13:15] yeah [22:13:16] Where is that documented, anyway? All I've seen is the image Elon tweeted. [22:13:33] Scott talking about it. orbital period of 2.4 years or something. [22:13:40] yeah, I was wondering about the orbit this morning [22:14:39] what is it orbiting? [22:14:48] is there a diagram of its path somewhere? [22:14:57] It's orbiting the sun now. [22:15:24] There's TLE equivalents for solar objects I suspect. [22:15:33] They burned way past mars orbit. [22:15:40] Used up all the fuel left they could. [22:15:50] It's nearly able to encounter ceres. [22:15:54] If it was to scale drawing. [22:16:29] They give the Ap and PE in his drawing (2.61 and 0.98 Au respective). [22:16:48] It would be cool if they went and recovered the car for giggles. [22:16:53] But that's expensive. [22:16:55] Ceres's Ap is 2.97, Pe is 2.56 [22:16:59] The BFR could totally manage it. [22:17:18] i somehow doubt the car is equipped for reentry :p [22:17:19] Could probably capture the entire 3rd stage of the faclon heavy and return it with a soft landing. [22:17:25] The BFR is. [22:17:32] But Ceres is inclined enough to the ecliptic that I do not expect collision to be realistic. [22:17:37] Ah, right. [22:18:03] I remember Scott Manley mentioning that actually sending it to Mars would "[pee] off a lot of people". [22:18:11] Probably for planetary protection reasons? [22:18:15] Yeah. [22:18:20] Littering on a stellar scale. [22:18:49] also, maybe we'll find FTL in the next month, and when it arrives at Mars, they'll have to pre-pay for parking? [22:19:39] (that's a real risk to launching in generation ships, incidentally, and I've seen a few stories that dealt well with it) [22:19:52] Weber covers it in the Harrington series pretty well. [22:20:28] there isn't it more the Solarians being left behind by military tech that the two combatants have developed while fighting? [22:20:35] well, if we launch a spaceship to alpha centauri now that takes 10000 years to arrive, and in 100 years they develop an eninge that makes the journey in 1000 years [22:20:36] or are you talking prequels? [22:20:49] that too. [22:20:51] In the history of Manticore, there's a slow ship and a fast ship. [22:21:09] I stopped following the Honorverse a few books after War of Honor, due to fatigue. [22:21:20] Though my KSP flag is of the Honorverse sigil from the wiki. :-) [22:21:50] aah [22:22:04] https://www.instagram.com/p/Be6VZEzgAEk/ [22:22:22] that's the final pic [22:22:23] The last stuff I remember in detail involves the SS-equivalent boy wonder with the genetic slave and her husband the reformed terrorist. [22:22:35] rip camera [22:22:37] assuming the engine development is on a diminishing development, at some point there's an overlap in that development where the next iteration of engine won't arrive earlier at the destination [22:23:11] yeah. [22:23:26] a moment of silence for the camera, please [22:23:27] [last shot] I grabbed a shot from the livestream as my background, but this one is better. [22:23:32] one reasonable place for that to happen is around .01 or .02 C where fusion "tops out". [22:24:06] Mathuin: that's the last good pic elon got before camera death [22:24:06] that means it takes 20-40 years to alpha centauri [22:24:12] If he opens a drink, can he be ticketed for open container even with self-driving? [22:24:22] Or only if they catch him before the alcohol boils off? [22:24:22] Rokker: it's a great picture! [22:24:28] Eddi|zuHause: what if you get out and push [22:25:11] it's enough to get people there, but probably not enough to return at a reasonable frequency [22:25:13] http://honorverse.wikia.com/wiki/Manticore_System#History -- The same colony trust sent two different ships, a hundreds-of-years craft and a much-faster craft. :-) [22:25:31] RIP Starman [22:25:37] Mathuin: falcon heavy got me banned from Twitter for like an hour [22:25:42] Noooo how? [22:26:05] forget what speed you start getting radiation dose from interstellar nucleons [22:26:16] because I cussed someone out for pooping on everyone's parade [22:26:24] Argh, sucky. [22:26:26] probably depends how much shielding, but there's a point where the shielding is just secondary particles waiting to be run into. [22:26:46] Pakaran: the scifi way to deal with that is to generate a field which repels the particles and increases in strength with speed. [22:26:47] someone was talking about how proud they were of America and some other guy decided to be all crappy about it [22:26:59] elons not American, spacex is a private company etc [22:27:03] like chill out [22:27:22] let people enjoy the event [22:27:29] It being a private company is extra amazing, and there's still a sense of "only in America could an immigrant launch his car into solar orbit". [22:27:44] everyone knows that the soviet union is the real hero in space travel [22:27:52] not to mention elon is like as pro American as it gets [22:28:10] I... [22:28:10] Eddi|zuHause: 63 days until Yuri's Night. [22:28:16] have been trying hard to maintain that line [22:28:37] for example, despite being American, and not having voted for all recent American politicians, I haven't mentioned any of them. [22:29:03] like the idea that his launch is used as a great example of American exceptionalism probably makes him super happy [22:29:12] Grats. I don't quite have the patience and discipline to be silent, because the current administration has had a non-zero impact on my family. Bleah. Happy space thoughts. [22:29:24] I do wonder if Elon would be less successful if he weren't visible Caucasian. [22:29:32] *cough* evil P word *cough* [22:30:11] ... [22:30:41] I think perhaps you should take this to another channel if you are gonna get political [22:30:44] both of you [22:30:54] just a suggestion [22:31:17] I'd be open to a suggestion, but honestly, I don't know where would be appropriate on espernet. [22:32:04] i'm not interested in getting political [22:32:18] same. [22:32:20] #SpaceXFun is probably a decent start, bit cancerous but eh, it's where the #SpaceX runoff is directed [22:32:24] I have all of Facebook for that. [22:32:24] including politics [22:35:14] Rokker: > describing a channel you created as cancerous [22:35:22] I need a final Starman 1080x1920 lossless image. [22:35:25] For a wallpaper [22:36:24] there's probably plenty of journalists selling "artistic renditions" from "simulating" it in KSP. [22:36:48] oren: thoth created it [22:36:56] I just came up with the idea and the name [22:37:09] so everything except the channel itself [22:37:11] Rokker: the actual conversation was about *not* getting political. Trust me, I won't complain here about it, I have other venues elsewhere. :-) [22:37:14] ah [22:37:50] Mathuin: but you still got a quip in there, which defeats the purpoae [22:37:52] purpose [22:38:25] Rokker: if the @'s think I've overstepped, I'll happily pay the appropriate penance. [22:39:04] Getting political usually results in getting physical...and you get bootable. :P [22:39:16] I felt really bad about my "liquid chlorine" discussion re oxygen not included [22:39:27] because someone remarked that it might tempt kids to try that. [22:39:43] (assuming they can order liquid chlorine, which I doubt anyone sells, but yeah) [22:41:15] they're more likely to encounted aqueous ammonia [22:42:34] Pakaran: mmm, chlorine. the forbidden drink [22:42:37] tasty [22:46:28] under what conditions is molecular chlorine a liquid? [22:48:43] Eddi|zuHause, 239.11 K (34.04 °C, 29.27 °F) [22:48:46] (from Wikipedia) [22:49:06] which is higher than NH3 and CO2, among others [22:50:21] (I can recap, but basically, it has weak intramolecular forces, thus the inconvenient properties, but as nonpolar molecules go, to van der waals forces are strong) [22:50:49] *the [22:51:24] but it'll cure athlete's foot, without much frostbite. [22:57:24] swmplvr?cartoon... fake .. cgi...? - YouTube chat is so stupid... [22:59:48] I had this idea...if a Flat Earthyer goes to either Dunkin Donuts or Tim Hortons and orders donut holes, they should just give him a bunch of small pancakes. [23:00:10] you know what's the most stupid? group A complaining that group B is stupid in a purely group A chat. you can assume that group B is doing the exact same, and nothing will be accomplished [23:01:02] that's actually kind of the issue with the KSP facebook group. [23:01:25] we're not allowed to reference flat earth, flat kerbin, flat anything, because it was causing problems with people trolling the flat earthers. [23:02:37] this did lead me to look stuff up, and learn the easiest experiment a child can do to verify Earth is round: ask a friend at sufficiently different longitude where the sun is. [23:05:58] I do have a silly question about momentum control: Why can't the ISS damp down with a really big permanent magnet? [23:06:46] Because the magnetic field of the earth is so weak at that range, no real work can be done against it [23:07:05] along with the fact that in the next 20,000 years or something; the magnetic poles will shift. [23:08:05] and practically, we're not going to operate it for 10k years, so rather than tonnes of neodymium magnet to "leave sitting there", RCS works pretty well? [23:08:44] also, "tonnes" of magnet lead to safety issues. [23:08:57] (not found in milligrams on a piece of cork on a cookie sheet?) [23:09:58] Imagine the takeoff. Imagine the fairing housing, and the tanks. [23:10:11] If you needed that kind of force, it'd be safer to go electromagnetic. [23:10:28] yeah. [23:10:43] And yeah, recreating Eratothenes (sp) is probably a trivial case in a networked world. [23:11:27] Heck, if you designed a jig with an obelisk, a level, and a camera, you can capture "local noon" from a number of points around the world. Use webcams, and let kids watch them. [23:11:50] Use the values to populate a sphere with the angles visible. [23:11:51] Etc. [23:12:11] It's a hoax! Fake! [23:12:20] Nothing will convince some people. [23:12:30] True. But those people have little value to me. [23:12:47] You could throw them naked into space and they still would not believe what they saw. [23:13:00] Mind control! Memory implants! [23:14:32] lol, indeed [23:14:42] but Picard recovered in under a season? [23:15:03] It's the space lizard people adding mind control in the water supply. [23:17:47] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o purpletarget|zzzz' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [23:29:15] Mathuin, point. just ejecting the fairings so they stayed ejected would be an issue! [23:29:38] Oooh, save mass on fairings exploding bolts by pulsing the EM. :-) [23:30:02] To repulsion, right. [23:30:33] I'm tempted to take pictures with my phone of a "self-aligning" magnetic craft. [23:30:54] But it would basically be a wood chip attached to a magnet floating over an aluminum cookie sheet. [23:31:06] Very Kerbal. [23:31:08] And I'm quite sure water provides much better breaking than eddy currents do [23:32:11] Now, a "permanent" superconducting magnet, past Saturn or so, would probably be pretty easy to set up. [23:32:37] whether it would stop tumbling in hours, not months, remaineth the issue. [23:40:24] Pakaran, in the book Accelerando, they wrap superconducting cable around a tiny moon of Jupiter, providing megawatts of power for centuries as it slowly inspirals [23:50:30] So I was listening to my podcast, stuck in traffic... [23:51:28] ...and I heard in there the same notions about medival time that was previous mentioned here... [23:51:59] It seems somebody else listen to "You are not so Smart" [23:59:27] SURPRISE!!I broke CKAN....