[00:03:39] :) [00:26:41] Action: packbart goes to file a bug that stacked command seats do not "support at least ten kerbals" ;) [04:43:11] hello, i am having trouble completing a satellite placement contract, the orbit that it wants is pretty much the exact orbit of Ike and it has to be above a certain point on the planet which Ike is already occupying 🤔 [04:49:59] Sounds like a bug [04:50:48] am i allowed to post screenshot links? [04:52:20] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [04:52:29] http://prntscr.com/swasdo [04:52:29] i didnt see any rule against it in the rules so here it is [04:53:27] You are allowed, and in fact, it is encouraged as screenshots help to explain things [04:54:05] Action: ObservatoryRaptop pokes Deddly with a stick. Is this a known bug? [04:54:19] (Duna orbit contract pushes an orbit inside Ike's SOI) [04:55:21] Probably related: https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/24752 [04:56:09] ikes sphere of influence seems too big in general, but i guess its nearly the size of duna itself 😅 [04:57:01] Yeah, Duna-Ike is sort of like Pluto-Charon [04:58:05] Well, not quite. Ike's only 6% the mass of Duna [05:00:10] according to the ksp wiki ike and duna are tidally locked so this contract definitely seems impossible [05:03:21] yeah, it seems to be [05:06:07] thanks for the help 😃 at least now i have my first satellite outside of kerbin [05:16:09] well, for a contract to finish, the satellite just needs to stay on orbit for 10s [05:16:32] even if it would crash into Ike later on [05:16:48] the orbit would need to be inside ikes sphere of influence though [05:17:09] it has to be above a certain point on duna, and since ike and duna are tidally locked i cant get there [05:17:26] no problem as long as the probe itself stays out of it until the contract finishes? ah. hmm [05:18:07] ok, for a synchronous sat, that's a problem. I see :) [05:18:54] (you *could* edit the contract parameters in the save file ;) [05:28:26] you could just edit the point to be on the opposite side :) [05:29:21] Action: ObservatoryRaptop likes that idea [05:30:01] or go to the opposite side and cheat the contract to be completed [05:52:40] Anyway, consider a solar sail: https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.03111 [05:54:27] 7000 square meters? [05:55:31] yep [05:55:54] that is huge [05:55:57] ok not huge [05:56:03] but i think way bigger than anything before [05:56:38] Yeah. Also, apparently there was an earlier proposal with > 28000 m^2 [05:57:42] hehe... how much does a polar bear weigh? enough to break the ice [05:58:40] https://sci-hub.tw/10.1007/s10686-008-9107-8 [06:06:30] KBO sizes https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.03113 [06:07:06] also rings [06:32:47] hahaha, 4th dimension intake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhkYcO1VxOk&feature=youtu.be&t=717 [06:32:47] YouTube - Take-Down of Thermaltake's Engineering & Marketing [07:43:06] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Judge_Dedd' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [07:45:21] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [07:48:00] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Judge_Dedd' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [07:52:50] presented without comment: https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.02944 [07:58:04] detecting Planet 9 via a sub-relativistic spacecraft fly-by and the measure of its Hawking radiation in the radio band [07:58:08] sound like sci-fi to me [08:00:32] Assumed: Planet 9 is a primordial black hole, and that laser sail craft are build/launched [08:00:50] as i said, sci-fi [08:01:08] Incidentally, this has the best figure https://arxiv.org/abs/1909.11090 [08:01:36] do we want it to be a black hole? [08:01:38] (bottom of page 5) [08:01:55] that would make the solar system really strange [08:02:00] Some physics people do. I'd hope for a super earth/sub neptune, really [08:02:08] but we would gain an insteresting object relatively close by [08:02:19] yes we need a super earth [08:02:52] there are already some unusual features in the solar system, the less we have, the better it is for probable life elsewhere [08:03:26] Action: ObservatoryRaptop eyes the moon uneasily [08:04:41] the sun already is not exactly the most common type, then it rotates slowly, and then we have this unusual moon. we also dont have a super earth, and having a black hole on top of that would be just weird [08:09:05] The sun is adequately common. I'd still wait for at least JWST (and maybe HabEx) before making any definitive statements about the habitability of M-dwarf planets, though [08:10:53] always only a few years more :) [08:11:40] lolsob [08:12:30] what would the head of nasa say if rocket with jwst exploded on the launchpad? easy come, easy go [08:13:40] aaaaaaaaaaaaa [08:19:36] (there is this joke where the lumberman goes each day to the forest to fell trees. he sells the trees for a small amount of money. after 20 years he goes into the city to gamble, puts all his money on a number, and loses. easy come, easy go) [08:41:01] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [09:04:17] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Judge_Dedd' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [09:12:05] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [09:37:58] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Judge_Dedd' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [09:58:52] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [10:49:19] Action: Deddly just watched "The first man". Why didn't they call it "Camera shake simulator"? [10:50:53] hehe [10:52:16] And also, when they burn prograde in orbit, it's like warp speed [10:52:46] The earth just zooms off in the distance [10:52:53] hehe [10:53:08] remember the scene from first contact when they launch the rocket? [10:53:18] and i am like: no, you dont go straight up [10:53:30] I don't remember that [10:53:54] But it was such a long time ago since I saw that film, I wouldn't have been educated by KSP [10:54:21] you reminded me to this because of warp speed [10:54:30] Ah [10:55:16] I liked Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning as a parody to that film [10:57:18] Aye [11:07:39] Althego: with the warp thingy you do go straight up [11:07:52] yes but it launched on a rocket [11:07:52] because you don't need an orbit [11:08:04] And old icbm [11:08:16] and in the scene you could see them being more than 1000 km up and still going up [11:08:21] before they went to warp [11:08:38] which is totally possible [11:08:56] ok, what if the warp drive fails [11:09:01] you fall back straigth down [11:09:05] yep [11:09:16] it would be still safer to just remain in orbit [11:09:23] Depends [11:09:27] also they never explained how they survived reentry [11:09:40] did you see any sign of a rentry possibility? [11:09:47] no, not really [11:10:11] Yeah, that's what bothers me the most [11:10:17] was probably left open for later figuring out? [11:10:53] Technically you could jump to warp when you upward motion is nearing zero [11:11:02] and then jump back at a very low altitude [11:11:13] then you would fall, but accelerate pretty slowly [11:11:26] ya but any ships ever tried warping into atmos? [11:11:27] somebody should try this in RSS :P [11:11:54] hehe [11:11:58] yes these are viable [11:12:02] JVFoxy: 200 km up is almost no atmosphere, but falling down will be not that deadly [11:12:10] but not really for an early prototype [11:12:31] say i am the inventor and i intend to launch on my own rocket. would i do it like this? no way [11:12:46] Have drogue chutes, deploy them early [11:13:33] Althego: depends of if you wanna get back or not... [11:13:38] *depends on [11:15:25] Althego: To be fair, if you think it's *close* to working, falling back into the atmosphere is the least of your potential problems [11:16:02] ISTR that flaky warp drives are interesting to be around [11:18:41] trying to figure out how the ship go back down.. feeling Enterprise might have helped in some way..? [11:18:49] istr looks like a fortran intrinsic function [11:19:36] but again, unless cochran was planning for a suicide, he could not have taken that into account in his original design [11:20:59] According to Memory Alpha, effects of misconfigured warp drives can include a "wormhole effect", hyperspatial distortions, improbably rapid genetic mutation, or just destruction of the ship [11:22:32] So anyone terribly concerned about their personal safety should just refrain from piloting experimental warp spacecraft at all [11:22:59] ah here we go [11:23:00] https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/2jwp2m/how_did_zephram_cochrane_land_the_phoenix/ [11:23:10] Oh, it can also cause time travel [11:23:14] of course [11:23:51] The guy in the expanse who invented the fast drive died. [11:24:26] Same in the Honorverse, I believe [11:24:52] Acceleration was too high for him to reach out to turn the drive off. [11:26:06] so.. star trek warp drives, at least the primitive ones had issues around gravity fields. [11:36:59] They always do, don't they? That's why they use impulse thrusters [11:38:01] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Judge_Dedd' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [11:38:49] I thought impulse was to get away from space stations. [11:39:16] Maybe to not tear them apart with positive or negative space warp. [12:32:27] darsie, https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/94479/whats-the-problem-of-using-warp-drive-within-a-solar-system [12:35:15] IIRC in ST they were not allowed to use Impulse near stations. [12:35:49] Though ST and consistency around space maneuvering is like asking Deddly not to be an oppressive moderator, they're incompatible. [12:35:50] How did they get away from stations, then? [12:36:17] "thrusters" [12:36:20] by scraping their hull along the dock [12:36:25] IIRC they used 1/4 impulse near stations. [12:36:42] But thrusters are impulse. [12:36:54] packbart, hehe, I know that film ;) [12:37:01] No [12:37:07] Thrusters and Impulse were different [12:37:38] There could be magnetic impulse, too. [12:38:13] Or light pressure. [12:38:56] http://fsd.trekships.org/operations/images/impulse-2.jpg [12:39:00] Or, indeed, physical contact. [12:39:51] Inside spacedock, the vessels in the federation were limited to thrusters which are chemical [12:40:03] except if you are captain kirk [12:40:12] Althego: that is a star trek constant [12:40:23] All rules apply, unless K is in the equation [12:40:26] So impulse is ion propulsion while thrusters are chemical? [12:40:44] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgJeAfxEHfU [12:40:45] YouTube - Leaving spacedock ST6.wmv [12:41:02] just got to love uhura and spock [12:41:33] The funny thing w/ the movies is they always seem to just say to hell with it when it comes to their established* propulsion/mechanical rules [12:41:43] TheKosmonaut, Kirk could also use impulse and Twist drive whenever he wanted [12:41:58] Sorry, I mean Pirk [12:42:31] The problem w/ impulse is that time dilation becomes a factor [12:42:49] twist drive? [12:43:05] Althego, Star Wreck :) [12:43:19] yes it is a factor if you are using to move fast enough [12:43:48] But again, Impulse seems to change in every season and indeed from season to season [12:44:28] Then you get Inertial Dampening systems which are super magic [12:44:39] effectively reducing the mass of a vessel [12:46:09] super secret higgs field nullifier [12:48:16] (so, just in case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GOoMowFpZs ) [12:48:27] 2005 even [12:51:46] hehe all too familiar ship shapes [12:54:01] Shot in 2.39:1 at that [12:56:56] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Judge_Dedd' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [13:32:14] Last message repeated 1 time(s). [13:32:14] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [13:41:15] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Judge_Dedd' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [13:43:54] the [13:44:23] TheKosmonaut, I always imagined inertial dampers were an application of artificial-gravity tech [13:44:39] Also magic [13:46:18] and how does gravity change the mass? [13:47:59] i'm sleepy [13:48:21] Althego: depends on how gravity works... [13:48:26] IDs were a combined use of the artificial gravity and the structural integrity field [13:48:55] ah another magic phrase [13:49:01] what is structural integrity field [13:49:04] TECHNOBABBLE [13:49:08] Universal translators are also magic [13:49:32] Technobabble is great, because every explanation just brings a new word into the lexicon [13:49:41] "An overloading [Inertial Dampening Field] has the opposite effect of most Applied Phlebotinum, causing a greater inertial effect, usually culminating in a Star Trek Shake" :) ( https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InertialDampening ) [13:49:44] also structural integrity field is the weakest shield in tyrian [13:49:49] You want to realign your inertial dampeners? [13:50:00] Try reversing the polarization on the tachyon emitters [13:50:20] You tachyon emitters are not primed? Have you considered inverting the EPS manifold pressure? [13:50:28] No such luck eh? [13:50:37] Ok, here's an idea... [13:50:43] Action: TheKosmonaut grabs random object [13:50:47] this is the ship [13:50:59] Action: TheKosmonaut throws ship into rubbish bin [13:51:00] shunt all power from the life support to the deflector. that usually works [13:51:13] now go look inside and find a solution, because they're all pretty much trash [13:51:25] i'm tired [13:51:42] packbart: To do that, you will need to manually change the particle flow by going through 10km of Jefferies' tubes [13:51:56] better send the captain and first officer on such a perilous mission [13:52:27] a good sonic screwdriver will revert the polarity of the neutron flow in a jiffy [13:52:29] What? You have a superpowered android that doesnt need to breathe and is practically indestructible? [13:52:41] Dont send him, keep him at the helm, operating the ship BY HAND [13:52:53] hehe [13:52:55] You have a holographic doctor that can literally not be killed? [13:53:00] lol [13:53:07] Nope, he needs to have feelings in his office for a girl that only lives 5 years [13:53:12] yes, the ship computer should be quite capable since it can run intelligent holo characters in its spare time [13:53:20] but the photon emitters or some such don't reach in the jeffery tubes! [13:53:39] so why exactly do they depend upon human interventin all the time? [13:53:45] unions [13:53:48] yes i know it wouldnt be interesting [13:53:50] You have a rogue AI hologram that can leave the confines of the holodeck, is super intelligent, and wants to find a life of its own? AND it's taken on the personality of Dr. Moriarty from teh Sherlock HOlmes novels? [13:54:02] Better not explain how he got off the holodeck [13:54:06] http://formularfetischisten.de/~packbart/temp/owu.jpg [13:54:20] TheKosmonaut, they were on the holodeck the entire time! [13:54:30] So holograms, like data, are used as a sort of metaphor for racism [13:54:37] which is why theyre in the show to begin with [13:55:36] It's revealed in an episode of VOY that the Doctor's EMH program was refitted to mine dilithium (or some other magical element) in harsh conditions [13:55:40] martian communist propaganda https://www.windowscentral.com/sites/wpcentral.com/files/styles/w830/public/field/image/2016/06/technomancer-propaganda.jpg?itok=xHDRMwbO [13:56:25] The EMH also proves that his program can be expanded, to the point where he is functionally human. [13:56:44] He can age, if so desired [13:56:58] He was able to expand his knowledge through more conventional means, as demonstrated through the show [13:57:06] sigh [13:57:23] But Starfleet-- humans, show that they had little to no regard for the question of his sentience. [13:57:31] That said, an entirely holographic fleet would make sense [13:57:50] There's also an episode where a ship is more or less derelict and run by a hologram as it limps back to home [13:58:17] What I never understand is how they let Barkley get away with so much through his life [13:58:27] THat dude should have been locked up like 20+ times [13:58:40] was under alien influence when he stole the ship :) [13:59:00] Yeah, but he also went against SF's orders to regain comms w/ voyager [13:59:01] because only he knows how to fix "Error -23A" [13:59:08] idiotic orders [13:59:14] He became a rogue intelligence that attempted to overthrow the Enterprise [13:59:30] he had a romantic relationship with a hologram of someone's likeness [13:59:39] That's an entirely different rabbithole [13:59:50] Dude was a freak [14:00:09] Althego: Yeah, the show demonstrates time and again that SF is pretty stupid [14:00:22] the only difference is, today we cant project our fantasies :) [14:00:25] Though Picard has been really beating a dead horse [14:00:42] Which, btw, I really enjoyed the first season [14:45:44] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [15:22:51] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o raptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [16:06:23] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Judge_Dedd' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [16:49:19] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [16:51:13] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Judge_Dedd' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [17:16:18] my parents saw an AWACS in the sky today [17:17:37] unidentified of course [17:25:07] hehe [17:25:52] which europe or usa? [17:41:47] Althego, british [17:54:05] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [18:21:17] but AWACS are usually flying radar domes [18:21:29] and for todays problems it's better to have camera drones... [18:21:33] well "problems" [18:23:18] in the uk it might have been one of the uk e-3d, not the usual e-3a that is in europe or usa [18:41:46] hehe, xkcd. the coax [18:46:42] Helloo, I haven't heard much about this topic but what is the aerodynamics of KSP 2 going to be like? Will there be more parts etc etc? [18:47:24] we don't know [18:47:53] I mean, the devs are talking about more parts on the propulsion side, and having stuff to do on other worlds, but beyond that... [18:47:55] at this point we can be happy if ksp 2 happens at all [18:48:29] Anyway, FAR exists for a reason [18:58:59] ah, the atmosphere. that pesky barrier between launchpad and space [19:00:01] It does help with slowing down at least. Shame about the heat [19:14:28] well, use a sterling generator to power the EM drive for landing [19:14:56] stirling? [19:15:12] oops, right [19:15:20] not the silver coin [19:18:19] i never liked the stirling generator in surviving mars [19:26:53] I'm picturing Jim Sterling turning a crank [19:30:38] Yes, that's definitely how it works [19:51:20] Bah, no althego [20:01:56] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Judge_Dedd' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [20:03:46] what's the line of sight of KSC for commnet? [20:04:03] it appears I can connect even though I can't technically see the KSC [20:04:50] Uh, there's a setting for over the horizon capability, and it's a bit more of planets with atmospheres [20:06:39] I'm trying to get the maximum distance that needs to be covered by a sat in orbit for the commnet [20:08:44] yeah, commnet sees Kerbin some 25% smaller by default. occlusionMultiplierAtm = 0.75 [20:08:58] if that's what I think it is [20:09:06] ooh ok nice [20:09:17] hmm, no that's a weird way to look at it [20:09:36] anyway, you could argue that the radiowaves propagate in the atmosphere around the curve [20:10:12] I'm not sure what the base radius is. could be just to account for terrain [20:18:29] so something like that for a geosync orbit? https://htx.fr/images/2020-06-09_22-18-12.png [20:18:32] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [20:20:53] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Judge_Dedd' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [20:24:45] possibly. I'm just going by the name of the parameter and I've seen commnet lines passing through the surface. I don't how it works exactly :) [20:25:37] yeah should be fine [20:29:03] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [20:35:56] haha, kerbals can climb on another [20:38:09] ok came up with this https://htx.fr/images/2020-06-09_22-37-06.png [20:39:49] ≃ 3492 km for a geosync orbit (2863 km) [20:40:20] ah no, how does the radius work here [20:40:32] actually, occlusionMultiplierVac = 0.9 by default [20:40:45] though I tend to set it to 1 [20:41:53] ok I'll restrict myself, I'll just assume the SOI is at 90° [20:44:49] huh. Line of sight and loss of signal share the same acronym. from LOS to LOS [20:45:01] euh oups [20:45:12] I was thinking about "li"-ne [20:45:18] and then "of" [20:46:32] my parser came up with two alternatives, both valid [21:21:27] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+v eriophora' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [21:23:46] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYV2hOaRQ3M Uhhh [21:24:32] it's animated! [21:32:14] https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/gzwnaz/starlink_fairing_deploy_sequence/ [22:05:42] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+v erio' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [22:33:51] Action: darsie built a proper Mun space station ... kinda, you know me :) http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot340.png [22:34:37] joining the two was fiddly. [22:46:44] Mun surface*