[01:21:25] <lordcirth> Mathuin, you mean in atmo?  Yeah it can be boring.  Is your craft stable enough to physics warp?
[01:21:42] <lordcirth> I skip all flight missions in career, and do space only
[02:11:35] <Mathuin> Yeah, physics warp and patience. :-)
[02:17:59] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Supernovy' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[02:35:54] <Fluburtur> for some reason I can't seem to be able to buy a krytron from the internet
[02:41:06] <Fluburtur> also there is a forum for fusor builders http://www.fusor.net/board/index.php?sid=94c310133537b99b7dafb8ead8a2aa96
[05:01:43] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o purpletarget|ktns' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[06:02:56] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Supernovy' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[06:06:22] <JCB> rwar.... so quiet
[06:17:20] Action: UmbralRaptor flies past JCB with a Tu-95.
[06:19:02] <JCB> Huh.. flying bears
[06:19:13] <JCB> they becoming active again?
[07:50:57] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Supernovy' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[08:06:33] <Sadviper> Hi where can I submit a crash report?
[08:56:39] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Supernovy' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[10:14:03] <HotSpicySausage> Anyone use Kerbalism?
[10:14:27] <HotSpicySausage> I'm getting really annoyed with it killing my warps during my Duna mission.
[10:25:58] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Supernovy' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[13:33:07] <Althego> haha, he just had to copy scott https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB-5hUSFVkg
[13:33:07] <kmath> YouTube - Huge Announcement!
[14:29:41] <lordcirth> HotSpicySausage, I do, you can turn off certain notifications for craft
[14:30:02] <HotSpicySausage> lordcirth, but you cannot edit the notifications if you don't have connection with the craft....
[14:30:08] <HotSpicySausage> which i find really dumb
[14:30:46] <lordcirth> HotSpicySausage, oh right.  Yeah it's a blanket thing that stops you from cheating.  There should probably be an exception for that
[14:31:04] <HotSpicySausage> i have like 50 probes all giving my warnings
[14:31:09] <HotSpicySausage> it is really dang annoying
[14:31:12] <lordcirth> HotSpicySausage, do you have a craft that you never have contact or pilot with but you still need?
[14:31:21] <HotSpicySausage> so i can't do a duna mission without getting my warp killed every 5 seconds
[14:31:44] <HotSpicySausage> what do you mean lordcirth ?
[14:31:59] <lordcirth> HotSpicySausage, these 50 probes, if you've lost contact, why do you still need them?
[14:32:26] <HotSpicySausage> they get contact, just that my relay network blows
[14:32:35] <HotSpicySausage> and i also like to see all the vessels i have in space
[14:32:43] <HotSpicySausage> to see my history/progress
[14:32:56] <lordcirth> So they occasionally get contact? I guess wait and turn them off
[14:33:05] <HotSpicySausage> yes but that's just silly
[14:33:07] <lordcirth> You can also disable all notifications but that's a bad idea
[14:33:12] <HotSpicySausage> how?
[14:33:33] <HotSpicySausage> i really think you should be able to edit notifications without needing to have connection..
[14:34:15] <lordcirth> HotSpicySausage, pause/break
[14:34:35] <lordcirth> HotSpicySausage, yes you should.  You can make a github issue, but he's absent atm.
[14:34:40] <HotSpicySausage> i noticed
[14:36:29] <FltAdmVonSpiz> also does anyone remember the time before struts?
[14:36:32] <FltAdmVonSpiz> the good old days
[14:39:04] <ve2dmn> FltAdmVonSpiz: The dark ages
[14:44:19] <HotSpicySausage> lel
[14:44:42] <HotSpicySausage> how do you compile mods anyhow? I might fork kerbalism
[14:48:11] <ve2dmn> HotSpicySausage: install Monodevelop or some other C# developpement suite.
[14:59:05] <darsie> Why doesn't my fuel cells produce EC? I have LF+OX, online. FC is started.
[14:59:55] <Althego> can it get the fuel?
[15:00:06] <Althego> is the battery full?
[15:01:07] <darsie> http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot3.png
[15:01:11] <darsie> yes, no.
[15:01:16] <darsie> IMO
[15:01:39] <darsie> I have no extra battery. Using the FC internal battery.
[15:01:48] <Althego> there is something between the fuel cell and the tank
[15:01:51] <Althego> what is it
[15:02:04] <darsie> okto2
[15:02:55] <Althego> i think fuel passes through that, but i never tried
[15:03:11] <darsie> The nerv sure got fuel from it.
[15:05:24] <darsie> Shall I try putting the okto out of the way?
[15:07:47] <darsie> Or an external battery?
[15:10:08] <Althego> probably wouldnt change anything
[15:10:08] <Mat2ch> well, you could try to launch a new vehicle without the octo part and see if it works
[15:10:11] <darsie> Works in a test build with tank-okto-FC
[15:10:24] <Mat2ch> then something odd is going on
[15:10:36] <Althego> i think the fuel cell never completely fills in the battery. i dont know why
[15:10:41] <ve2dmn> Did you try turning it off and on again?
[15:10:45] <darsie> yes
[15:11:16] <darsie> I could reload ksp
[15:11:18] <darsie> restart
[15:11:30] <ve2dmn> What is using power, btw?
[15:11:39] <darsie> the octo rn
[15:12:36] Action: darsie restarts ksp.
[15:15:01] <darsie> still no worky worky :(
[15:15:33] <darsie> ok, I'll try to mod my ship ...
[15:15:38] <darsie> and ground test it.
[15:17:10] <RandomJeb> the fuel cell doesn't operate when you have over 95% of your maximum EC
[15:17:20] <darsie> ahh
[15:17:25] <darsie> thx
[15:17:43] <Althego> that is what i said
[15:17:57] <darsie> Hence "output cap 95%"
[15:18:13] <RandomJeb> yes
[15:18:23] <darsie> 3
[15:18:26] <darsie> oops
[15:23:37] <darsie> Yep, stable now at 575 EC and fuel dropping.
[15:26:15] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o APlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[15:26:24] <APlayer> Hi there!
[15:32:32] <darsie> hi
[15:33:31] <darsie> 0.0 km separation for my asteroid rendezvous across 2/3 solar orbits :).
[15:33:36] <NomalRaptor> friendly bot
[15:33:45] <darsie> k :)
[15:34:02] <APlayer> Humm, so I am taking a break from my usual KSP project and took at missiles. Long story short, I am trying to make an anti-aircraft missile and I need to switch from a flying aircraft to a landed missile launcher. Is this possible, with mods if necessary?
[15:34:43] <Althego> only with mods if it is out of physics range
[15:35:13] <Althego> the flying one will disappear when outside range
[15:35:49] <APlayer> All within a > 10 km range
[15:36:13] <APlayer> I am getting a message "Cannot switch craft while in atmosphere"
[15:36:31] <Althego> youcan switch when you are very close
[15:36:42] <APlayer> About 2 or 3 km I guess?
[15:36:52] <Althego> i tihnk stage recovery or something like that supported this
[15:37:03] <Althego> but it did that by saving the game in a hidden way
[15:37:05] <APlayer> I have both Stage Recovery and FMRS too
[15:37:10] <Fluburtur> https://78.media.tumblr.com/c41a2ad823612ccc9e260e747e831b21/tumblr_oy7jkufU0S1wqz4dlo1_500.jpg
[15:37:43] <APlayer> OK, the missile launcher is 1.8 km away while the craft is on the runway, the craft launches roughly in the direction of the launcher
[15:37:51] <ve2dmn> darsie: 0.0km seperation, but at what speed difference?
[15:38:06] <ve2dmn> because if it's >0, I call that a collision
[15:38:21] <APlayer> I currently work around by starting the script with a 30 sec delay, switching to the craft and hoping it works, but cannot watch the missile live that way
[15:43:50] <darsie> ve2dmn: 150 m/s or so.
[15:44:01] <darsie> That was the predicted separation.
[15:44:08] <ve2dmn> not too bad
[15:44:32] <darsie> But I ran out of fuel when matching the asteroids speed with 41 m/s left ...
[15:44:44] <darsie> Gotta bring some ore ...
[15:44:56] <ve2dmn> or more fuel
[15:45:04] <darsie> Not getting a bigger tank.
[15:45:14] <darsie> Ore tank is empty.
[15:45:47] <ve2dmn> but ore convetion demands energy. I hope you have good solar panels
[15:46:20] <ve2dmn> also makes lots of heat
[15:46:20] <darsie> fuel cell
[15:46:46] <darsie> Mission is to eject a class C asteroid out of the kerbol system.
[15:46:59] <ve2dmn> is the fuel cell more efficient then the ore converted?
[15:47:10] <ve2dmn> what a strange mission
[15:47:26] <darsie> FC uses only a small fraction of the converted fuel.
[15:48:00] <ve2dmn> I would not know, I never used FC
[15:48:42] <ve2dmn> I either use solar panels or RTG, because my obession is getting the maximum amount of dV
[15:49:04] <darsie> I'm preparing for low insolation, but I might get the escape trajectory while still close to Kerbol.
[15:49:31] <ve2dmn> good luck with the excess heat
[15:49:38] <darsie> Dunno if the ship will make it back.
[15:49:44] <darsie> I have a radiator.
[15:49:52] <ve2dmn> only 1 ?
[15:49:59] <darsie> two. small ssytem.
[15:50:16] <ve2dmn> depending on how close you are to Kerbol, it might be an issue
[15:50:40] <darsie> I'm leaving kerbol.
[15:51:47] <ve2dmn> you can't leave Kerbol
[15:52:05] <ve2dmn> There is no outside. The galaxy is a lie!
[15:53:35] <APlayer> Well, the surface-to-air missile plan does not work because of practical limitations. Let's attempt air-to-ground missiles then. :P
[15:54:42] <ve2dmn> KSP is not desinged for this kind of thing. Try Inter-continental instead
[15:54:52] <APlayer> I've always had a small problem with them, that the radial decoupler stayed on the missile. Is there a way to change this behaaviour except making the missile the root part? (I am thinking about adding multiple missiles)
[15:55:16] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Nothing to shoot down on other continents... Plus, I want some flying action
[15:56:47] <APlayer> Is a radial decoupler + cubic octo strut and making that a subassembly an option?
[16:08:16] <ve2dmn> .t
[16:08:26] <ve2dmn> ;t
[16:09:01] <ve2dmn> Ho NO! Everyone know my password!
[16:10:29] <Fluburtur> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIiDQ7buWLs
[16:10:29] <kmath> YouTube - Channel Update & Music Machine Mondays Finale Week
[16:11:07] <Althego> lol the e fell off
[16:13:48] <Althego> tim burtonish fingers
[16:14:00] <Althego> and lol sandstorm
[16:14:44] <APlayer> ve2dmn: I hope this was not serious?
[16:15:01] <Althego> lol
[16:15:07] <ve2dmn> no. '.t' ask a bot for the current time in another channel
[16:15:15] <Althego> looked like that. maybe time
[16:15:31] <ve2dmn> ;version
[16:16:07] <ve2dmn> I always get the different bots confused
[16:18:35] <Althego> wow the marbles
[16:20:02] <APlayer> Which of the stock planes is the most suited to carry missiles?
[16:36:55] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o DuoDex' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[16:36:56] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o NBones' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[16:41:59] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[16:41:59] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o DuoDex' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[16:44:45] <RandomJeb> my most successful stock missiles were tubes of oscar b with a nosecone and a spark, decoupler attached to the spark, no radial worries
[16:45:14] <RandomJeb> that was in the old souposphere though
[16:45:16] <APlayer> I am going a more modded approach
[16:45:28] <RandomJeb> with that little nosecone having a super high impact tolerance
[16:47:29] <RandomJeb> how modded? Are you using bdarmory for the warhead and guidance?
[16:48:34] <APlayer> Extremely modded. I don't use BDA (where's the fun if everything is automatic?), I use kOS for guidance, tweakscale for size and tons over tons of part mods
[16:49:29] <RandomJeb> nice
[16:50:12] <APlayer> You may be the first one to say "Nice" to my install. :D
[16:51:13] <APlayer> Also, I did "working" missiles a whole while back. They were unguided and rather bad, though
[16:52:41] <RandomJeb> if you have a free radial attachment node you could stick that to a docking port and decouple the docking port for a radial decoupler free missile
[16:56:40] <APlayer> https://imgur.com/a/iaFv7 the first attempt kept the decouplers on the missiles
[16:59:10] <APlayer> Also, no warheads. Relies entirely on kinetic energy
[16:59:28] <APlayer> (Current test design also does this, for I do not use BDA)
[17:00:40] <APlayer> And here is the new decoupler design: https://i.imgur.com/r45j98g.png
[17:03:25] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o technicalfool' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[17:05:07] <Mat2ch> Fluburtur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIiDQ7buWLs
[17:05:07] <kmath> YouTube - Channel Update & Music Machine Mondays Finale Week
[17:05:22] <Althego> old
[17:05:23] <Fluburtur> yes I saw that
[17:05:50] <Mat2ch> It's 50 minutes old!
[17:19:39] <ve2dmn> 50 minutes is 3 decades in internet time
[17:23:07] <APlayer> So... You launch a missile from your high altitude aircraft at 25 km altitude and switch to the missile. About two minutes later you switch back and realize you're only 2 km above the ground ad travelling at 400 m/s at an angle of 40 or so deg downwards
[17:23:50] <APlayer> I though this was bye-bye Jeb (In anticipation of such a scenario I made a quicksave, so no problem), but managed to pull out like 200 m above the ground
[17:24:17] <APlayer> Anyway, I'm off for dinner. Cya!
[17:25:23] <wookiez> hey
[17:25:33] <wookiez> how can i rotate just 1 part without the others rotating as well?
[17:28:23] <Mat2ch> when the part is in the middle of a stack: Rotate the part (and everything on it), click on the next part and press Space
[17:29:13] <wookiez> nah i mean ive got 3 engines
[17:29:23] <wookiez> i wanna rotate just 1 but the other 2 rotate in the oposite direction of it
[17:31:39] <Mat2ch> how did you place the 3 engines?
[17:31:52] <NomalRaptor> Probably would have to place them separately / without symmetry active. 
[17:32:27] <wookiez> https://gyazo.com/87c2dc4ada8b765a9ebc51a7ca75c3f4
[17:32:34] <wookiez> oh really
[17:32:41] <wookiez> im gonna try that
[17:35:23] <wookiez> yes that was it - thanks raptor!
[17:35:48] <NomalRaptor> \o/
[17:39:55] <darsie> Why doesn't the fairing close onto the large ore tank?
[17:40:26] <darsie> It closes onto a large reaction wheel.
[17:42:34] <darsie> ahh, after restarting ksp it works.
[17:44:10] <Althego> it always bothered me that the relative sizes in the game are not correct
[17:44:20] <Althego> you cant use the shuttle solid booster and the orange tank
[17:45:21] <NomalRaptor> There isn't a stock shuttle booster, really. 
[17:45:47] <NomalRaptor> The Kickback's thrust is an order of magnitude too low vs the other engines. 
[17:45:49] <Althego> but the long solid booster and the orange tank are obviously copies of the shuttle parts
[17:45:59] <Althego> visually
[17:46:06] <Mat2ch> Just take two on each side...
[17:46:20] <Althego> and they are too small
[17:46:24] <Althego> they dont have enough thrust
[17:46:35] <Althego> same for the orange tank, too small
[17:46:57] <Mat2ch> also the aerodynamics are broken :P
[17:46:59] <Althego> also we need bigger from everything in stock. wings, tanks, engines
[17:47:14] <Mat2ch> As if we'd get :D
[17:47:36] <Mat2ch> Take Two is probably working on KSP 2: Revenge of the Kraken. Where you play as the Kraken.
[17:47:45] <Althego> because even the biggest engine and tank is often not enough, and part counts skyrocket when you cluster those
[17:49:04] <NomalRaptor> They're not even UA1205/1206/1207 sized, really. 
[17:51:15] <NomalRaptor> Call them weird long duration GEM-40/46/60 motors? 
[17:53:45] <oren> Take Two is probably working on a mobile phone game where you catapult different colored minikrakens at a rocket with green kerbals inside it
[17:54:39] <oren> and then you have to wait a minute to get another set of minikrakens
[18:00:29] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o APlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[18:03:00] <ve2dmn> oren: "get extra kerbals for only 12.99!"
[18:05:08] <ve2dmn> I know people are gonna hate me, but I've tried No Man's Sky yesterday and I enjoyed my time with the game
[18:05:53] <NomalRaptor> AIUI, it takes a few hours to run out of fun? 
[18:07:23] <ve2dmn> Well, I liked to explore new lands in Minecraft, so I might play for some time...
[18:07:29] <sandbox> It was inevitable.
[18:07:39] <ve2dmn> Although, I do have issues with the UI a bit
[18:08:59] <ve2dmn> I wish I could have a sort of world map with waypoints I could set
[18:10:02] <ve2dmn> Also, some of the markers disapeer once I get on board my ship and I'm not sure it's intentional (lack of good sensors, for example) or if it's a UI issue
[18:11:48] <ve2dmn> Anyway, I bought a few games for the xmas vacations
[18:12:18] <ve2dmn> All my friends are working, so I'm stuck alone with free time. So I'll try a few new games
[18:12:46] <ve2dmn> And then go back to KSP, Minecraft and Stellaris like I always do
[18:21:15] <Mathuin> Minecraft is a game I play with the wife and MIL.
[18:21:24] <Mathuin> Every time there's an update, we nuke whatever we have and start over.
[18:22:20] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: I wish my immediate family was into gaming, but sadly... I'm the only one
[18:22:38] <ve2dmn> well, maybe except my nephew, but he is a bit young
[18:23:26] <Althego> hah the alita movie is coming... i guess it will be a mess. also cameron will not be directing it as it was rumoured previously
[18:24:13] <legion> it said that in the trailer...
[18:25:01] <Althego> and why did they do  that to her eyes?
[18:25:17] <Althego> cameron is producer
[18:26:45] <legion> the eyes were something the original manga (and then anime had) that doesn't translate well to full on 3d. super creepy
[18:29:40] <Althego> but that is an art style
[18:29:56] <Althego> why would anybody try to move that to a movie?
[18:38:58] <ve2dmn> There's a 'Battle Angel Alita' movie?
[18:39:10] <Althego> will be
[18:39:21] <Althego> it has been in development hell for many years
[18:39:39] <ve2dmn> ... that could be both awesome or very awful
[18:39:44] <Althego> along with ender i think, but that was finally finished years ago
[18:40:20] <ve2dmn> Never read Ender's game
[18:40:43] <Althego> good, because then you want to read the other books in the series :)
[18:41:00] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj8mN_7Apcw
[18:41:01] <kmath> YouTube - Alita: Battle Angel | Official Trailer [HD] | 20th Century FOX
[18:45:58] <APlayer> Wohoo, air launched missiles work so far! Now on to create the actual guidance algorithm (for which I have no idea, but I guess I'll figure it out)
[18:52:00] <Althego> i didnt know this http://www.core77.com/posts/71024/New-Brain-Breaking-Optical-Illusion-These-Lines-are-All-the-Same-Shape
[19:48:27] <APlayer> Huh... Guidance seems to be working, with the sole exception of nearly zero control authority
[19:48:36] <APlayer> Guess it's a hardware problem
[19:49:38] <JCB> ugh.. heart burn.. software.. or hardware issues?
[19:50:14] <APlayer> Hardware
[19:50:35] <APlayer> Missile tries to steer rather nicely, but fails because... Well, because it fails to steer
[19:52:11] <APlayer> Might be too front heavy
[19:52:13] <JCB> oh heh.. I meant about the heartburn.. though I guess flesh... maybe more organic ware..
[19:52:28] <JCB> erp.. front?
[19:52:36] <APlayer> Sorry?
[19:52:39] <JCB> no... you want it heavy up front. this shooting in space or air?
[19:52:47] <APlayer> In air
[19:53:00] <JCB> ya front.. probably not enough control athority..
[19:53:05] <JCB> maybe too much weight up frotn
[19:53:07] <APlayer> It simply fails to steer, although it seems to get worse as the burn progresses
[19:53:17] <JCB> that would be weight shift
[19:53:29] <JCB> got a pic of the design?
[19:53:38] <APlayer> Either the CoM moves too much (It does move a fair bit), or the aero properties get worse with speed
[19:53:54] <JCB> well faster you are.. harder it is to turn
[19:55:30] <APlayer> Mk1 pod for scale: https://imgur.com/vTazj3A
[19:55:31] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/vTazj3A.png
[19:57:01] <JCB> mm...
[19:57:08] <JCB> try this
[19:57:35] <JCB> reverse the control fin locations..
[19:57:50] <APlayer> The CoM gets about 2 - 3 times as far to the front over the course of the missile flight
[19:57:55] <APlayer> Also, let me see
[19:57:56] <JCB> see if you can push the center of pressure back a little more
[19:58:07] <APlayer> CoL you mean?
[19:58:08] <JCB> ah.. ya means you got quite a bit of weight up front
[19:58:17] <JCB> ya.. lift also known as pressure sometimes
[19:58:31] <APlayer> 2 - 3 times the distance between CoM and CoL, that is
[19:58:59] <APlayer> I can push it back by simply moving the front fins backwards?
[19:59:10] <JCB> if mass pushes forwards just a little.. you ok. but if its a lot, causes it to be too stable and not too controlable
[19:59:47] <APlayer> Let me see what I can do about the front mass
[19:59:48] <JCB> its the fin type... think the canards on the back don't have as much authority as the full on fin surfaced ones
[20:00:05] <JCB> also.. maybe try putting battery between engine and tank.. put a little weight aft to help balance
[20:00:31] <APlayer> It's a solid rocket motor :P
[20:00:49] <APlayer> Might at most remove the inline battery and add small radial ones
[20:00:56] <JCB> nah
[20:01:06] <APlayer> Although the battery only weighs 1 kg
[20:01:11] <APlayer> (Tweakscale)
[20:01:11] <JCB> ok.. thought was liquid
[20:01:29] <JCB> other option is to go remove front fins... put stationary ones half way on mirrored mode
[20:01:56] <APlayer> Wouldn't that move the CoL too much backwards?
[20:02:21] <APlayer> Plus remove like half the control authority I have
[20:02:35] <JCB> you want it a little aft...
[20:02:48] <JCB> don't want it too close to matching CoM...
[20:03:19] <APlayer> So, it's the probe core
[20:03:33] <APlayer> 10 kg at the front, vs most components of 1 kg and less
[20:04:46] <APlayer> I either add something back heavy or somehow reduce on the probe mass (I could tweakscale it even smaller, but already costs a lot) to prevent the CoM from wandering
[20:06:33] <APlayer> OK, I guess this works
[20:06:36] <APlayer> Let me try
[20:10:09] <JCB> k
[20:12:55] <ve2dmn> APlayer: I read your link as 'Mk1 pod for sale'
[20:13:27] <APlayer> Well, good luck at the auction. Starting price is $ 500 K
[20:14:08] <ve2dmn> I'll give you 15cent for it.
[20:14:19] <APlayer> Deal
[20:16:01] <ve2dmn> And then I could write the shortest KSP story ever: "For sale: Mk1 pod. Never used"
[20:19:56] <APlayer> OK, guidance now much better, still not quite good enough (Looks like it can only deviate by like 5 or 10 degrees per km)
[20:20:24] <APlayer> Will try to move the CoL even further
[20:20:50] <APlayer> Also, the CoM does not move nearly as much anymore
[20:24:49] <JCB> ok
[20:31:10] <APlayer> OK, looking good so far, but the guidance does not seem to be that good anymore :P
[20:31:46] <APlayer> I guess I see the problem
[20:33:34] <JCB> I know a bit about missiles.. though its not specialty
[20:33:44] <JCB> er.. its not my specialty as it were...
[20:34:21] <ve2dmn> JCB: TL;DR: it's a big controlled explosion with a guidance system
[20:34:29] <APlayer> Well, is there a name for AGM missile guidance algorithms?
[20:36:08] <GuestBanana> someone's gonna hate me for this, but still: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKAdi0hPtr4
[20:36:09] <kmath> YouTube - Zelda: Breath of the Wild - The Champions' Ballad OST - Monk Maz Koshia (Phase 1)
[20:36:18] <GuestBanana> amazing music
[20:36:32] <APlayer> OK, I may or may not have improved it
[20:36:35] <APlayer> Only time will tell
[20:36:37] <APlayer> :P
[20:38:52] <ve2dmn> GuestBanana: did you buy the DLC?
[20:41:04] <GuestBanana> I don't have the game, but I rent it a lot
[20:41:15] <GuestBanana> I might have spoiled everything about the DLC... just might have :)
[20:41:19] <JCB> ve2dmn there is no such thing as a controlled explosion... it just happens
[20:41:20] <ve2dmn> Renting is still a thing?
[20:41:31] <GuestBanana> more like borrowed from the library
[20:41:38] <APlayer> JCB: So, I basically adjust the heading in a P-Loop to try to get the prograde vector aligned with the target, then I adjust the pitch basically the same way, but pointing slightly upwards of that in order to counteract gravity
[20:41:40] <ve2dmn> even cooler
[20:42:05] <GuestBanana> I wished for it for Christmas, so maybe good ol' Santa will hear my wish
[20:42:14] <JCB> ok..
[20:42:25] <ve2dmn> GuestBanana: i asked for the Mario+Rabbit game
[20:42:57] <GuestBanana> Mind you, I requested the Wii U version because I only have a Wii U
[20:43:10] <APlayer> Hard coded level 7 on a Mohs scale
[20:43:54] <ve2dmn> GuestBanana: I played both. It's fine on both platforms
[20:43:54] <GuestBanana> why is that tune so good - like the techno part
[20:44:38] <GuestBanana> except whenever you pause in Wii U by pressing "home" it takes like 15 seconds for it to resume
[20:44:48] <GuestBanana> I haven't seen that happen on Switch, so I wouldn't know
[20:46:49] <ve2dmn> GuestBanana: I play in the Métro :D
[20:49:23] <ve2dmn> btw, that is why I was interested in a Console version of KSP: To launch rockets while riding the subway undeground
[20:49:41] <GuestBanana> I would probably be way too addicted to Zelda anyway if I could take it anywhere...
[20:50:49] <ve2dmn> It's not as cool as seeing it on the big screen
[20:52:44] <GuestBanana> yeah
[20:53:22] <GuestBanana> I think the closest I'll get for a while is getting to tap the Wii U Gamepad to switch screens
[20:53:26] <GuestBanana> then I can go anywhere...
[20:53:56] <GuestBanana> ...50 feet from the console
[20:54:07] <ve2dmn> The original design for the game used the gamepad for inventory
[20:59:31] <APlayer> Here's how a typical trajectory looks like right now: https://i.imgur.com/Xr2mWwn.png Target was on the launch pad, launched from about 5 km away at low altitude, pointing pretty much straight at the launch pad
[20:59:38] <GuestBanana> well wouldn't that have been sweet
[20:59:47] <APlayer> The response of the guidance is way too sluggish
[21:00:40] <JCB> bomb drop might have also worked too
[21:00:51] <APlayer> Sorry?
[21:01:27] <APlayer> You mean from that position?
[21:01:35] <JCB> powered missile flight to target vs glide, ballistic drop
[21:01:49] <APlayer> I followed the missile from rather far away, this is like 1 km away
[21:02:08] <JCB> plane aimed at launch pad too?
[21:02:13] <APlayer> Yeah
[21:02:22] <JCB> ok
[21:02:31] <APlayer> It's the guidance by now, not the missile itself
[21:03:32] <APlayer> And the guidance is not predictive enough, i.e. simply pointing in the direction of the target does not help much when you want to actually hit it
[21:03:47] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Supernovy' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[21:03:54] <JCB> mm... yay for dumb fire missile
[21:03:56] <JCB> or DFM
[21:03:58] <Supernovy> Evening, Gentlemen.
[21:04:23] <APlayer> Looks like I will need some sort of impact position modelling and counteract the impact error in order to hit things
[21:04:56] <GuestBanana> Supernovy: Whatever-time-of-day-it-is to you too, Overlord.
[21:05:14] <APlayer> Actually, I guess I can just plot a straight line from where I am to where the target is, adjust my course so that it matches the line closely as possible and steer slightly upwards
[21:05:27] <APlayer> And hope there is no VAB or things in the way
[21:05:40] <APlayer> Does that sound feasible?
[21:07:03] <JCB> or just aim for the VAB
[21:07:15] <APlayer> Nah, VAB is too sturdy
[21:07:21] <JCB> unless its more a project for hitting flat ground targets
[21:07:38] <APlayer> Flat ground targets?
[21:08:08] <Scolar_Visari> Sons and daughters of Kerbin: Today, on a special episode of Kerbal Space Program, Jebediah gets help with his adrenaline addiction.
[21:08:30] <Scolar_Visari> This, of course, was never mentioned in previous episodes and will never be mentioned again in the future.
[21:09:05] <APlayer> Scolar_Visari: That is, Jeb is grounded? No more flights for now?
[21:09:13] <JCB> launch pad.. lays nearly flat to the ground as opposed to buildings
[21:09:21] <JCB> poses different challenges..
[21:09:30] <Scolar_Visari> Aplayer: They consider grounding him before he gets help from Adrenaline Addicts Ahoy
[21:09:41] <JCB> building you can broadside hit... flat targets, sort of have to come down from over top, or you'd just bounce
[21:09:57] <Scolar_Visari> Also: So I guess habitable worlds *don't* need indigenous magnetospheres? https://phys.org/news/2017-12-mars-atmosphere-solar.html
[21:10:00] <APlayer> JCB: Well, really, I don't care about the effects
[21:10:06] <APlayer> Just want to hit the thing
[21:10:14] <JCB> feh.. Jeb hogs all the attention anyways. I tend to stuff him in the back, let others a chance
[21:10:14] <Scolar_Visari> From the article: "Despite the absence of a global Earth-like magnetic dipole, the Martian atmosphere is well protected from the effects of the solar wind on ion escape from the planet."
[21:10:35] <JCB> mm ok
[21:11:07] <APlayer> Anyway I need to get a plan to hit it any way, not even talking about specific trajectories
[21:11:21] <Scolar_Visari> JCB: I insist on making Jebediah the first on nearly all missions for the purpose of earning ribbons for the Final Frontier mod. I subsequently imagine him wearing so many medals at formal functions that he falls on his chest when attempting to walk.
[21:11:45] <ve2dmn> Scolar_Visari: then why has Mars lost it all?
[21:12:00] <Scolar_Visari> Or melting down said medals to make a heroic statue of himself with enough ribbon material to make an appropriate cape.
[21:12:04] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Aliens sneezed at it
[21:12:09] <Scolar_Visari> ve2dmn: That's the thing, it may have not. 
[21:12:10] <JCB> eh.. send him off into a solar escape launch... not dead, but not recoverable...
[21:12:22] Action: Scolar_Visari notes Mars still sort of has an atmosphere that's a lot better than none at all.
[21:12:43] <APlayer> Or a lot worse, depends
[21:13:27] <Scolar_Visari> Mars' climate evolution is very poorly understood, and a thicker atmosphere alone cannot account for what geological evidence is suggesting.
[21:13:35] <ve2dmn> Scolar_Visari: does this mean, if we manage to make one (out of N2, let's say), it would be stable?
[21:14:32] <Scolar_Visari> ve2dmn: Well, even before this paper was published, it would've still been stable for tens of thousands of years.
[21:14:53] Action: Scolar_Visari spits at the possibility of Earth giving the Dusters an atmosphere. Dirty Reds should pay for it 'emselves.
[21:15:39] <ve2dmn> I'm thinking of sending bacteria to make it. Think I should start a Kickstarter?
[21:16:07] <Scolar_Visari> That would run into all sorts of planetary protection issues.
[21:16:36] <Scolar_Visari> Though terrestrial bacteria would probably find the Martian surface less than hospitable.
[21:17:12] <ve2dmn> Send Tadigrades!
[21:17:49] <Scolar_Visari> But they're animals!
[21:18:36] <Scolar_Visari> Without other organisms to consume, they would slowly starve to death.
[21:18:44] <Scolar_Visari> Unless they convert to Breathenarianism.
[21:20:35] <APlayer> Well, of course my guidance might be failing because I used TAN instead of ATAN
[21:20:37] <APlayer> :P
[21:21:45] <APlayer> Scolar_Visari: They would not starve. They would go on standby and use zero energy, and not starve before the Sun consumes the Earth
[21:23:16] <ve2dmn> APlayer: they probably survived the last heat death of the previous universe and repopulated the earth when a new universe was born
[21:23:27] <APlayer> And then they would realize the Earth is no longer inhabited, form intelligence and take over the solar system
[21:23:42] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: I would think that they would've been annihilated by radiation long before that.
[21:23:55] <APlayer> Nope, they are immortal
[21:23:59] <ve2dmn> ^
[21:24:00] <Scolar_Visari> Also the reactive bits of Martian regolith.
[21:24:31] <ve2dmn> Scolar_Visari: all these things might kill some of them, but some always survives
[21:25:58] <Scolar_Visari> Starving to death is pretty guaranteed. Should've brought coral I guess?
[21:26:11] <ve2dmn> Vaccum of space? meh. Marrianna Trench like pressures? "seen worse". near 0k temperature? "I'll just hibernate here, then" 
[21:27:43] <APlayer> Meanwhile, tardigrades whispering to each other: "I wonder when they will realize we actually came to colonize this planet!"
[21:29:25] <ve2dmn> APlayer: They have been here for millions of years...
[21:30:16] <APlayer> I'm being silly, in case it's not obvious ;-)
[21:31:17] Action: Scolar_Visari glares at the tardigrade-philes. "You invertabrate lovers can stuff it!"
[21:31:36] <Scolar_Visari> Give me synapsids or give me death!
[21:32:11] <GuestBanana> ok pew pew
[21:32:38] <APlayer> Sounds like a mass shooting is imminent
[21:32:45] Action: SnoopJeDi coughs
[21:32:51] <SnoopJeDi> bad day for that sort of joke
[21:33:00] <Scolar_Visari> Too soon.
[21:33:08] <tawny> they're all bad days for that sort of joke :/
[21:33:09] <SnoopJeDi> (as are most days)
[21:33:10] <Scolar_Visari> From an op, too, FOR SHAME
[21:33:12] <APlayer> Sorry? Did I say something insensible?
[21:33:40] <ve2dmn> APlayer: check the news
[21:33:44] <SnoopJeDi> it's just a third rail subject, particularly for any US chatters. sorry for the call-out
[21:34:06] <SnoopJeDi> but yea, today there was an attempted act of terrorism in NYC so it's kind of close at mind
[21:34:21] <APlayer> Woah, I'm sorry, guys
[21:34:37] <tawny> we've had an average of almost one a day this year
[21:34:46] <APlayer> Didn't know the US news, and didn't realize it hurts
[21:36:21] <Scolar_Visari> Alright, on to something less rule-breaking . . . On second thought, "President to sign space policy directive Monday" is probably more tasteless.
[21:37:18] <Scolar_Visari> Okay, here's something less political! The wealthiest organism on planet Earth plans renewed rocket tests! http://spacenews.com/blue-origin-preparing-to-resume-test-flights-from-west-texas/
[21:37:41] <APlayer> What about tardigrades?
[21:37:51] <ve2dmn> APlayer: they stay awesome
[21:38:59] <KrazyKrl> Wait... is the consensus around here to hate blue origin, or to like blue origin?
[21:39:03] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: They're exterminated by the Prokyarotic Bacteria Alliance
[21:39:21] <APlayer> KrazyKrl: I personally tend to the former. Don't ask me why
[21:39:43] <Scolar_Visari> KrazyKrl: I've . . . Honestly never heard someone 'hate' Blue Origin, albeit largely because it's seldom in the news per Bezo's preference to work in the shadows ala Lex Luthor.
[21:40:09] <KrazyKrl> APlayer: Same here... probably because they super hyped a suborbital flight on the coattails of SpaceX.
[21:40:23] Action: Scolar_Visari notes the engine and capsule abort tests were carried out without fanfare.
[21:40:40] <ve2dmn> I just want to see more rockets
[21:40:56] <Scolar_Visari> KrazyKrl: Sure you're confusing them with Virgin Galactic?
[21:40:58] <APlayer> Okay, apologies once more for crossing the borderline there, I'll try to avoid it in the future. I'm off for today, be back tomorrow and will bring better jokes that time!
[21:41:14] <APlayer> See you!
[21:41:15] <Scolar_Visari> Who is opping the ops?
[21:41:32] <ve2dmn> Scolar_Visari: superops
[21:42:00] <Scolar_Visari> What superops? We have a NormalRaptor, we need a UberRaptor.
[21:42:00] <APlayer> Scolar_Visari: The opers themselves. Maily Deddly in my case, if I got it correctly
[21:42:14] <KrazyKrl> We have infrared cops here too.
[21:42:16] <APlayer> Anyway, off for real now. Bye!
[21:42:20] <GuestBanana> bye
[21:42:52] <ve2dmn> Scolar_Visari: I know that DuoDex seems to be everywhere I go
[21:43:08] Action: Scolar_Visari ponders upgrading NormalRaptor into a HyperRaptor running off the main sequence and into oblivion.
[21:43:26] <Scolar_Visari> ve2dmn: Of course. DuoDex is actually a Vorlon. THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN HERE.
[21:43:58] <ve2dmn> Scolar_Visari: not just that, but a mod on a few subreddits...
[21:44:17] <Scolar_Visari> We can only hope they're the good ones.
[21:44:26] <Althego> upgrade to fuzzyraptor
[21:45:01] <Althego> because of the feathers in amber
[21:45:24] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: I think raptor feathers would be less fuzzy upon appearance and more like modern birds' flight feathers.
[21:45:43] <Scolar_Visari> Prior to amber, we had plenty of impressions on similar animals plus quill nobs on raptors.
[21:45:48] <Althego> the article said it was from a dinosaur related to raptors
[21:46:03] <ve2dmn> Scolar_Visari: the visual is really cool
[21:46:31] <Althego> ok that is just the tail, other parts may have more modern feathers
[21:46:32] Action: Scolar_Visari goes all Thomas Huxley https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*HmwxJekyj8ioyYSzX8kgcg.jpeg
[21:47:17] <ve2dmn> see? A picture is worth more cool stuff
[21:47:25] <Althego> at least we can easily say to creationists that yes dinosaurs lived together with humans, just as they live now
[21:47:36] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: It belonged to coelurosaurs
[21:47:54] <ve2dmn> Althego: who were the humans back then?
[21:48:09] <Scolar_Visari> Which is, pretty vague.
[21:48:15] <Althego> no, the birds
[21:48:17] <Scolar_Visari> ve2dmn: Turok, I guess?
[21:48:27] <Althego> they are still here
[21:48:48] <ve2dmn> So my great-great-great-greath^N-grand-father looked that bad?
[21:49:19] <Althego> just as we are still apes, or vertebrates, etc, those categories never disappear
[21:49:55] <Scolar_Visari> Also, for reference https://goo.gl/ft6Pjc
[21:50:12] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: I, for one, am proud of my prokaryotic ancestory!
[21:50:13] <SnoopJeDi> mmm Turok
[21:50:14] <Althego> i think they would be popular pets
[21:50:21] <Scolar_Visari> Nucleus -schmucleus.
[21:50:22] <Althego> like dogs or something
[21:50:27] <SnoopJeDi> Turok is a pretty good speedrun
[21:50:50] <ve2dmn> Althego: they are
[21:50:53] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: Until they eat some one elses pets.
[21:51:27] <ve2dmn> modern dinosaurs are good pets, for the most part
[21:51:30] <Althego> they are no b igger than dogs
[21:51:48] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: That doesn't stop them from eating them ala larger birds of prey!
[21:51:50] <ve2dmn> Although, it's hard to explain to someone that the emperor penguin is related to T-Rex
[21:52:06] <Scolar_Visari> ve2dmn: They're related in the same way you're related to a distant cousin.
[21:52:07] <Althego> just look at bird feet
[21:52:39] <Scolar_Visari> You have a common ancestor in Charlemange, I suppose.
[21:53:01] <ve2dmn> Charles mange?
[21:53:17] <Scolar_Visari> Charles Magnus!
[21:53:34] <Scolar_Visari> Hrm . . . Well, I suppose I can give them credit for getting the head right https://media1.britannica.com/eb-media/59/8059-004-EEFFC355.jpg
[21:54:15] <Rolf> btw those dinsours is likely to have had feathers
[21:54:30] <ve2dmn> Rolf: that was the original conversation
[21:54:37] <Rolf> lol ok
[21:54:39] <ve2dmn> with the story about amber and stuff
[21:54:40] <Althego> we know they had feathers
[21:54:57] <ve2dmn> someone has the link to the image?
[21:55:08] <Althego> https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/12/feathered-dinosaur-tail-amber-theropod-myanmar-burma-cretaceous/
[21:55:08] Action: Scolar_Visari looks at the awful Deinonychus that had the horribly inaccurate skull on the Wikipedia page https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/FMNH_Deinonychus.JPG
[21:55:16] <Rolf> I find it funny that we still have dinsours now
[21:55:20] <Rolf> we just call em birds
[21:55:35] <Scolar_Visari> Rolf: We are all out of non-avian dinosaurs, however.
[21:55:41] <Rolf> yeah
[21:55:45] Action: Scolar_Visari laments the loss of Earth's largest land animals.
[21:55:57] <ve2dmn> https://news.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/news/2016/12/08/dinosaur_tail/06_dinosaur_tail.jpg
[21:56:00] <Scolar_Visari> The tonnage of an Atlas assault 'Mech, the gentleness of Little Foot's mother.
[21:56:12] <Rolf> I doubt today's earth could support em now
[21:56:17] <Rolf> not enough oxygen in air
[21:56:22] <Althego> the largest animals probably didnt have too many feathers
[21:56:31] <Althego> just as the large ones now dont have much fur
[21:56:54] <ve2dmn> Scolar_Visari: So you are saying the big dinos were the original tanks?
[21:57:16] <Scolar_Visari> Rolf: There's a new-ish paper that casts doubt on mesozoic oxygen levels
[21:58:28] <Scolar_Visari> Tappert et al.s "Stable carbon isotopes of C3 plant resins and ambers record changes in atmospheric oxygen since the Triassic" from Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 2013 https://www.eas.ualberta.ca/wolfe/eprints/Tappert_GCA_2013.pdf
[21:58:40] <Scolar_Visari> ve2dmn: I'm saying they're the original BattleMechs.
[21:58:57] <ve2dmn> only missing lasers
[21:59:36] <Althego> walking mechs in real life sound a bit silly, or sci-fi. but i sure hope there will be real ones. there are some projects in that direction
[21:59:56] <Scolar_Visari> ve2dmn: Who needs lasers when you have AC-20s?
[22:00:07] <Rolf> much much dakka
[22:00:37] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: While they are silly, I do detest the insistance that making walking machines are an engineering impossibility given that there have been 100+ walking animals in real life that did not benefit from 32nd Century materials!
[22:00:44] <Rolf> much dakka https://funnypictures3.fjcdn.com/pictures/Never+too+much+dakka_9dafe9_5843640.jpg
[22:00:52] <Scolar_Visari> Now all we need are low temperature molecular hydrogen fusion reactors.
[22:01:08] <Scolar_Visari> Rolf: Flash Gitz is nev' hav too much dakka!
[22:01:22] <Althego> no, where are the catgirls?
[22:01:31] <Scolar_Visari> Jus' bust out som' of dim' grotz teff n' buy some snazz gunz!
[22:02:08] <Scolar_Visari> Heck, modern tanks are heavier than most medium 'Mechs, and they go wicked fast.
[22:02:30] <Rolf> legs is very diffult to do
[22:02:47] <Fluburtur> im going to a hobby shop to get a job tomorrow again
[22:02:54] <Fluburtur> so any more advice?
[22:03:07] <Scolar_Visari> Rolf: Amusingly, none of the legs I've seen in BattleMech art seem to follow the lore.
[22:03:07] <ve2dmn> Fluburtur: be yourself?
[22:03:17] <Fluburtur> I guess
[22:03:25] <tawny> what's the lore about battlemech leg
[22:03:25] <tawny> s
[22:03:42] <Scolar_Visari> They're supposed to be endoskeletal legs with myomer (read: Artificial muscle) motors in lieu of conventional motors.
[22:04:07] <tawny> ah
[22:04:21] <Scolar_Visari> The use of an endoskeleton allows for a larger maximum weight.
[22:04:53] <Scolar_Visari> Armor being mounted on the outside, rather than serving as a load bearing structure.
[22:07:08] <Scolar_Visari> I'd appreciate a turn to more plausible looking design, if only for a different look rather than a continuation of art that's been used since the 80's
[22:07:32] <Scolar_Visari> Also: MechWarrior 5 is totes a thing now, with Mercenaries even.
[22:08:58] <Scolar_Visari> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztqhTjLVfgs
[22:08:59] <kmath> YouTube - MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries Teaser (Mech_Con 2017)
[22:09:14] <Scolar_Visari> But, Grey Death Legion?
[22:10:55] Action: Scolar_Visari silently hoped for a Dark Age storyline set on the Periphery. Enough Great House shenanigans!
[22:11:17] <Scolar_Visari> Davion-this and Steiner-that, what about those worlds outside the light of Blake!?
[22:13:00] <Scolar_Visari> Excluding those Clan savages, of course. They can take their overheating ER nonsense where the light doesn't escape for all I care.
[22:14:32] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o purpletarget|ktns' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[22:16:54] Action: Scolar_Visari goes off to join the one true heir to the Star League: The Free Worlds League, albeit only because their use of the color purple makes it possible to use Purple Rain as a pro-wrestling-esque intro to Solaris VIII battles.
[22:24:29] <KrazyKrl> Star League: Free Worlds Initiative: The Last Musician: Explosions in the Blood Dome: Revengance
[23:46:34] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Supernovy' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net