[02:15:54] That feeling when you unlock NTRs and discover that the aerospace tech nodes you haven't researched have all the fuel-only tanks. [02:23:37] hah [02:24:09] But, then, what did you expect from a civilization where car wheels were derived from turbopump turbines? [02:27:27] Somewhere in the VAB, an unpaid intern attempts to solve the issue of now-useless tankage. "Hey, guys, why don't we just fill the empty oxidizer tanks with extra fuel?" "Why don't you just shut up and get us more coffee?" [02:29:27] Kerbal coffee is at least a few percent hydrazine [02:30:20] I heard their astronauts' version of Tang is UDMH. [02:36:59] extra spicy [02:38:10] Serious question: If I'm developing a fully reusable, two stage launch vehicle wherein the upper stage is also a crew vehicle/glorified payload fairing, would it be best to make that upper stage space plane-ish or a very tall capsule? [02:41:16] Making it plane-ish would probably be harder, but having cross-range would be nice for landing at KSC or the like [02:41:35] tall capsules are unstable, hard to control and land. can it be a *short* capsule? :). spaceplanes also require quite a bit of design work, although once it's done it's a plane [02:41:36] I'm guessing the latter would sort of be like this, but with the more forgiving delta-v requirements of KSP that actually make it possible https://imgur.com/GgJtNQO [02:42:30] I'm terrible at designing planes, though, and I like the thought of using my wide NFT boosters as the basis for mammoth payload bays. [02:44:12] As showcased in the official mod gallery https://i.imgur.com/P9rWmBN.png [02:46:24] shiny [02:46:25] Though I don't have the fairing itself yet, as it's pretty far down the techtree where I am. [02:46:36] I can build all the gigantic other rocket components, though. [02:47:43] I was mainly imaging a literal spaceplane for the upper stage, or a conventional upper stage with chutes (and maybe a bit of fuel reserved for soft landings) [02:50:22] Like so? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Saturn-Shuttle_model_at_Udvar-Hazy_Center.jpg [02:51:31] Or this? https://www.thedrive.com/content-b/message-editor%2F1591404746493-servandmurp.png?quality=60 [02:52:10] Though I sort of can't do that one in KSP, and I can't imagine making those tanks in real life would be easy. [02:52:18] the second one would be closer [02:52:26] uh, also https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Dyna-Soar_on_Titan_booster.jpg instead of the first [02:52:51] (exact design could be quite different in detail) [02:54:30] No fins, only gimbals [02:54:48] Or those verniers Soyuz is still toting. [03:00:02] Hrm [03:01:16] Compromise: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-49cf66e04e17a5d94da771bdddc58b5d.webp [03:04:22] that first one is certainly something [03:04:46] The Alt-Buran or something else? [03:05:18] I assume that Izaya means the saturn-shuttle [03:05:29] the last picture posted, whatever that was [03:05:49] ah, the last one Solar_Oracle posted was an alt-buran [03:05:57] I guess that figures [03:06:05] proposed second generation design that would be fully reusable [03:06:09] Buran, but without a face. [03:06:20] seems to embody the kerbal school of design: more boosters [03:06:57] It's like Energia and Buran got hit by one of those energy waves from Doom and were welded together. [03:08:16] Some shuttle followup proposals were similar [03:08:28] (At least ones proposed circa 1985-1995) [03:10:15] There were plenty of proposals to have the main propellant tank operate as a base for bulky payloads, like satellites with enormous dishes and oversized SUVs. [03:12:14] eg: https://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/2017/02/nasa-johnson-space-centers-shuttle-ii.html [03:13:36] notably: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/--ecSpAMycgc/WJzCVZNaTmI/AAAAAAAAbBA/XTlcZgjYIVk7bFOYnq4U5pAfpCsqYhK6ACLcB/s1600/Image-of-shuttleIIc1.jpg [03:13:40] https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-spng7aIO-UU/WJvbwY70cgI/AAAAAAAAbAI/F0Cwel-RdE4KJmD_hvXDHrvUZEoJzd1xwCLcB/s1600/shuttleIIa.jpg [03:15:36] Mini main propellant tanks! [03:16:20] I'm guessing that didn't carry as much. [03:19:19] I'm unclear on exactly how much it would have carried, but probably [03:19:51] Action: raptop inserts my standard rant that all fungible shuttle payloads should have gone on much cheaper Titan III / IV rockets [03:23:58] Would that mean you'd have to leave out Galileo as it was one-of-a-kind? [03:24:20] Yes because the shuttle was a generation ahead in reliability [03:24:32] In some alternate timeline, it's not delayed because of Challenger but ends up exploding on a somewhat less reliable Titan rocket. [03:24:49] well, yes [03:26:18] You people today are all spoiled on your super reliable LVs. Back in ma' pappy's day, we'd be happy if our Atlas waited to explode after takeoff! [03:27:45] Get all upset when yer' Mars helicopter is delayed? Meh, you know how many Rangers failed 'fore we even got one that could make it to the Moon!? [03:29:37] And then the first one to do so couldn't use its cameras [03:30:28] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Althego' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [03:30:38] Stupid exploding un-burnt fuel. [03:35:00] My favorite launch failure is the time an unmanned Soyuz capsule entered launch-abort mode on the pad and the exhaust from the escape tower motors set the rest of the stack on fire. [03:37:56] In effect, the launch abort system caused the failure of the rest of the rocket. [03:38:03] wait, what? [03:38:18] http://russianspaceweb.com/soyuz-7k-ok-no1-explosion.html [03:38:23] That does sound vaguely like when that one soyuz caught on fire on the pad circa 1981-82 [03:38:31] It was one of the spacecraft's earliest tests. [03:38:32] ah [03:38:58] There was a scrubbed launch and the LV registered an unplanned movement, triggering the escape system. [03:39:16] However, there were peopled congregating on the pad at the time ala the Nedelin Catastrophe. [03:42:00] "As the veteran of the mission Vladimir Syromyatnikov later wrote with his famous black humor: "a few world records were broken that day in running and high jumping."" [03:43:18] There needs to be a movie on the early Soviet space program like The Right Stuff. This is [black] comedy gold! [03:43:49] Or I suppose it'd be more similar to The Death of Stalin, but with Korolev being the one dying. [03:49:15] Consider: a miniseries about soviet/russian space stations. Start with them watching the moon landing and the pivot to the Salyuts, end with launching Zarya [03:51:31] That'd be kind of a low note given that Zarya's owned by the U.S. [03:52:20] And if I recall, is mostly a very large walk-in closet. [03:52:34] It doesn't feel like there's a good high note to end it on [03:53:55] Salyut 7's successful retirement mission alongside Mir? [03:54:20] Just pretend the next three decades don't happen! [03:56:51] oh no, the reaper is coming and i have to go to the bakery [03:57:18] Where's Commander Shepherd when you need them? [03:57:47] Althego: wait, wouldn't being a phoenix make baking things really easy? [03:59:04] or did you mean that *you* have to go to the bakery? [03:59:10] Solar_Oracle: vtuber silliness [03:59:46] Vtuber? What's that? Is that like a blogger that runs on vacuum tubes? [04:00:51] heh [04:01:08] Action: raptop imagines a vacuum tube powered webserver [04:01:46] more seriously, virtual youtuber -- you know those people that have anime girl (usually) avatars and stream things? [04:03:42] guh [04:03:56] i have to go to the bakery. the phoenix is in 8 hours [04:04:59] Wait, is that like that thin where little kids watch You Tube videos of other little kids playing with toys? [04:05:03] Action: raptop is also using vaguely following some vtubers as an excuse to learn japanese [04:05:46] vtuber reads comic about vtubers lol [04:05:57] the previous such thing is legendary [04:07:26] The internet is becoming too meta. [04:07:47] too late [04:07:54] You fools risk summoning the End of Cycle! [04:08:24] doubly meta, because people call calli dad, and she reads the comic my dad is the queen of all vtubers [04:11:47] The meta is all sorts of fun. see: gura getting distracted by sharks in the background in underwater sequences [04:12:00] or ina in horror games [04:12:17] I knew I should've just stayed back in the era of Angelfire and flame gifs. [04:12:57] Action: raptop presses F to pay respects to AIM and the old XMPP google chat [04:15:18] All this research on reusing upper stages makes me sad I'll be sucked into Stellaris once again. [04:21:21] still mad google stopped federating [04:21:31] but maybe not having the network dominated by an evil company isn't so bad [04:21:32] was it ua that wants to keep them in orbit and do something with thtem? [04:22:42] something something external tank space station [04:25:49] No no no, grind them up into propellant. [04:27:52] ah they want to use them as refueling depot [04:31:15] name it brennan debot [04:31:28] because in elite 2 there were things named brennan [04:31:34] i guess maybe a developer [04:36:27] what do you know brennan depot is still there in elite dangerous [04:36:54] i remember i used to transport something between arcturus and 70 ophiuchi [04:38:29] You can even still find Jameson's Cobra https://canonn.science/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Delmonte_JamesonCrashedShip01.jpg [05:02:05] friendship drive charging? [05:07:00] when guh is a legitimate line in the comic. this is made for calli [05:45:03] maybe a launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=domwsgorRW0 [06:54:14] we mentioned fuel depot in orbit. and there it is an angry astronaut video about the exact same thing [06:59:22] oh no, zombanwa [07:03:17] when is the ingenuity flight? [07:22:21] hehe, ash ketchum is 34 years old [07:25:31] stop that [07:26:37] bart simpson is 41 [10:57:49] Action: flayer slaps darsie [11:19:33] lol. Blue Origin shall build a space craft that is then powered by a nuclear stage (a NERVA) [11:19:59] They haven't put anything in orbit yet and already get such contracts. That smells so much like corruption, I don't know why. [11:20:54] to be fair many companies that don't have rockets to put them in space participate in building space crafts [11:22:38] yes, but they usually have some reptutation to do so. Mostly because they are founded by space veterans [11:22:47] And Blue Origin is a joke to me. [11:22:53] actually they didnt get contracts where ula and spacex did [11:23:04] so not everything is corrupt [11:23:30] i just dont get why they cant produce anything useful [11:23:53] they have the backing of maybe the richest man, or at least he used to be, because he gets income from amazon [11:24:09] BO do have a lot of veteran space talent [11:24:23] yet they are older than spacex and never went into orbit [11:24:40] It's a management problem! [11:24:47] even the launch that possibly happens today, that rocket although suborbital, never carried a person [11:25:08] If a company doesn't perform well, it is usally the management making poor or bad decisions. Mostly because they don't know what they are talking about [11:25:21] well, spacex has that too [11:25:30] Bezos is no Musk driving things forward. [11:25:30] i never believed the point ot point starship idea [11:25:37] costs too much and too risky [11:25:41] It's just a vision, will probably never happen. [11:26:08] Far too expensive. Building a hyperloop over land will be so much easier compared to that. [11:26:12] and cleaner. [11:26:17] and more efficient [11:26:19] and i dont believe hyperloop either [11:26:33] i think starship can actually happen [11:26:39] Putting a maglev train in a low pressure tube is nothing fancy. [11:26:40] that can [11:26:46] probably hard, but can be done [11:26:55] to the moon, to mars, yeah, i think it's entirely feasible [11:26:58] but i am talking about suborbital point to point flights with it [11:27:12] it is simply not competitive with airlines [11:27:21] yeah, that seems... like it would take longer to set up and prepare each flight than the actual flight itself would take [11:27:23] especially with the new supersonic are happening soon [11:27:28] you don't believe the hype? [11:27:31] in that whole space of time, you can just take an ordinary plane [11:27:45] you even need to take a boat out to a launch platform at sea [11:27:59] and the fuel costs alone are probably several times bigger [11:28:04] and less safe [11:28:10] for slight time margins [11:28:53] oh a jay [11:29:00] they dont usually come here [11:29:08] source btw: https://www.darpa.mil/news-events/2021-04-12 [11:29:39] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQdWwFb6GW4 [11:29:44] Althego: uhm, the new super sonic stuff will have low capacity, high maintanace and nobody is talking about fuel costs here [11:30:10] because a rocket is not low capacity high maintenance [11:30:16] hyperloop can be built high capacity, low mainantance and fully electric powered with energy regeneration on braking [11:32:51] hyperloop is maybe slightly more plausible than the point to point starship [11:35:53] did you also take into account the vast wealth inequality [11:36:05] people like musk, bezos, gates, etc, might think that it is worth the money [11:36:31] to travel in a rocket from earth to earth [11:36:35] (local) leet time [11:36:42] !time [11:36:42] Althego => 13:38:04 CEST on 2021-04-14 Wednesday CW 15 [11:36:49] i think i barely made it [11:37:07] 4 seconds before 1338 for me [11:37:29] yes looks like that [11:37:43] the clock is about 4 seconds behind and showed 52 [12:01:02] phoenix is coming but i still have an almost 3 hour long flat earth video [12:03:05] kikkerikii [12:11:26] . [12:13:44] 2 hours until the blue origin stream [12:16:07] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30PiSlePOYU [12:16:11] seems reasonable. :D [12:16:34] lol [12:16:56] if it is under pressure it should be quite rigid [12:17:17] and the bottom is full of tiles which could be replaced [12:17:36] but non ideal. i am really afraid those tiles are going to be a long term issue [12:17:47] well, even if it is pressurized this would be a lot of stress to the structure [12:17:55] and damgaged tiles means more maintance. [12:18:10] the whole structure is big, i would make the webbed part bigger [12:18:15] think of the fairings [12:18:27] the web was way bigger and it was hard to catch them [12:18:33] to the point they gave up on it [12:20:24] well, the fairings did come on parafoils [12:20:40] which makes it a very dynamic system [12:20:49] starship on the other hand falls very controlled all the way. [12:21:10] and its mass makes it more resiliant to wind gusts. [12:33:23] https://i.redd.it/oskhmiyxp3t61.jpg [12:35:11] flayer: I'm used to slapping in another channel. [12:35:43] the princess is in another castle [12:36:20] Has she been sleeping for 100 years? She must be very old and smell horribly, then. [14:19:11] hello [14:19:17] . [14:33:55] heh blue origin launch is on hold [14:34:05] Hi darsie [14:34:09] woooot [14:34:11] . [14:34:57] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+v eriophora' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [14:34:58] Uh, SN15 might have its static fire test on Friday [14:35:07] (almost wrote Fireday. Not that wrong. ;) [14:35:10] Althego: url? [14:35:41] https://twitter.com/blueorigin [14:35:53] k [14:35:57] stream would be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=domwsgorRW0 [14:36:02] but probably not today [14:36:10] thx [14:43:48] hah 10 minutes until stream [14:43:49] so maybe [14:56:43] live [16:00:55] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/dutch-supermarkets-run-out-of-cheese-after-ransomware-attack/ [16:02:27] yeah [16:02:37] that kind of thing is going to become an ever bigger problem [16:11:18] what is with these holds [16:24:03] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUF5esTscZI [16:24:44] ehhe americans with letter and stuff [16:25:44] and the multiple letter standards [16:25:45] i didnt expect a universe scale video [16:25:48] Action: raptop stab stab stabbity stab stab [16:26:30] But yes, that is a fun powers of 10 style video [16:26:55] Action: raptop is also reminded of the hexagons are the bestagons video for some reason [16:29:32] yes, lets make all strategies hexagonal [16:30:07] hexagons are fine for insect vision, they would be fine for cameras and screens too [16:37:53] ⌬⌬⌬ [16:38:16] countdown afgaun [16:38:23] ⏣⏣⏣ [16:48:20] now [16:48:36] i forgot to double the speed [16:48:47] there is a 15 sec buffer [16:55:35] sapcex does better landings without hover [18:07:18] Althego: but but but [21:30:20] Action: flayer sticks his foot inside Shoe [21:30:50] flayer: kinky [22:46:13] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptor' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net