[00:01:09] do you know where starman is by now? [00:02:23] Try JPL Horizons? [00:04:13] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308347965469097994/413104543438602240/unknown.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308347965469097994/413109018123567110/unknown.png send help [00:05:08] snek? [00:13:52] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26x4Tfyd_pQ [00:13:52] YouTube - Marble Machine Cover Machine [00:38:41] Einarr: am now [01:04:36] Well, I already found the answer I was looking for, taniwha. Much priase for your actually useable manual. :) [01:04:58] Less praise for my terrible typing, however... [01:13:38] anything you'd like me to add to it next? [02:15:40] taniwha: I have not read the manual, but maybe a reminder to 'check yo staging' ? [02:21:06] ve2dmn: I'll see if I can come up with something amusing [02:21:19] I wonder how Rocket Body 2012-11B got into the orbit it is in... [02:21:36] 62k Apogee seems a bit high [02:24:00] Check yo stagin is amusing, but it save me a lot of trouble, so it's not completely useless, as advice go [02:24:23] oh, definitely, but it does have to be presented in an amusing way [02:24:46] for one, humor makes things easier to learn and remember [02:49:41] taniwha: While I've had EPL installed before, I'm actually finally getting around to using it...building my first LKO Shipyard. [02:51:35] :) [02:51:48] And only because it will probably be easier to build my Near Future based Grand Tour Ship, and associated landers on orbit than to build on Kerbin and assemble them in orbit (the old fashioned way)... [02:52:02] oh, very much so [02:52:15] and EL does not prevent traditional orbital assembly, either [02:52:20] rather, it enhances it :) [02:53:13] I had pinged you in the long ago because I had a quick question regarding whether Kethane was needed for getting Metal Ore. [02:53:42] I was pleasantly surprised to find that your manual not only had the info I needed, but that said info was not buried in a lengthy to find place. [02:54:44] (I'm looing at /you/ ProjectApollo...) [02:54:54] Action: Einarr still can't type... [02:55:40] loo! LOO! [02:55:47] (similar to boo:) [02:56:27] As it turns out, I don't even need to worry about Metal Ore, since I currently plan only on the LKO shipyard... [02:57:09] However, I am glad to know I don't need Kethane if I do decide to deal with Smelting... [02:57:51] 2.1.1 was the easy to find info? [02:57:56] (Note, the ProjectApollo references a different, but similar game, not KSP) [02:58:46] It took less than 20 minutes to find the section, and said section had more than a few words. [02:59:07] The words it did have were also useful. [03:00:24] So many mods for various games I've dealt with would often have a sentence at most for a particular thing, and what words were present were a waste of space and provided no useful info. [03:00:50] yeah [03:01:04] Fairly common with 1 person development teams. [03:01:14] one of the reasons writing the manual is so hard is because I /know/ EL, but I need to write for people who do /not/ know EL [03:01:35] and that's probably the problem for most manuals [03:01:49] They'd go on at length about installation, for example, but if you wanted special configuration, GFL... [03:02:04] Action: Einarr smacks self for language... [03:02:14] I've actually dug through the EL thread looking for my posts explaining something, pasting them into the document and then expanding on them [03:03:34] Orbiter has some wonderful, and well made mods...but even with the big ones, the manuals often suffer. [03:03:42] the manual is essentially EL's FAQ in a more readable form [03:05:25] thus why I ask "anything you want added?" :) [03:05:37] Of course, you also have to consider that with some of those big mods (ProjectApollo, for example) the problem isn't always a lack of info, but too much. [03:05:46] yeah [03:07:20] For those who don't know, Orbiter's ProjectApollo mod (or whatever it calls itself these days...) is meant to realistically simulate every aspect of the Apollo spacecraft, including LM, etc. They often include real manual excerpts and mission data. [03:08:21] oh, geez, that would be a tough slog [03:08:24] I can't think of anything to add to EPL's manual offhand. [03:08:30] The manual is quite long. [03:08:39] well, if you do, please let me know [03:08:51] and not necessarily add, but expand, refine, trim... [03:09:04] and it is for both users and modders [03:09:52] (this post and last back to ProjectApoolo's manual) And when looking for the /one/ sentence that contains the relevant info you need at any particular time, it can take awhile... [03:10:08] Oh look, I still can't type... [03:10:49] oh, and I do intend on adding an index :) [03:11:12] Ah, hadn't gotten to the end of the manual. Indexes are useful things to have. [03:12:06] Oh, it's /only/ 25 pages long... [03:13:07] hehe [03:13:15] I do actually have a suggestion. [03:13:56] For the Survey section, you might wish to add some pictures or other illustrations showing the relationships between the stake modes. [03:14:16] yeah, planned [03:14:19] Perhaps even some example layouts showing some deployment patterns. [03:14:30] ah, yeah, that would be a good idea [03:14:54] especially for dealing with launch clamp supported structures on hillsides [03:15:03] I may end up using the Surveying thing later. [03:15:39] And don't want to end up with my creation spawning in the ground and summoning Klang... [03:16:21] http://taniwha.org/~bill/screenshot4108.png [03:16:36] I had some problems with just that... [03:16:57] (thus the development of the floating tags on the stakes) [03:17:28] http://taniwha.org/~bill/screenshot4114.png [03:17:44] the code for the big boundary thing is still there but disabled [03:18:08] Hmm...so what resource do you get if you happen to recycle a Kerbal... [03:18:10] I don't remember what the problem was [03:18:37] some scrap metal and (if kethane is installed) kethane [03:18:56] So Kerbals are machines... [03:19:11] GameData/ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads/Resources/Kerbal.cfg [03:19:22] no, the scrap metal comes from their suits [03:19:51] the kethane is their organics (but violates entropy) [03:19:57] Would have thought those would be mostly some sort of plastic... [03:20:12] The suits, anyway... [03:21:15] well, you get only 39kg of Metal from a 93.75kg kerbal [03:21:29] (an unsuited kerbal is about 10kg) [03:21:47] 44.75kg is assumed to be other (plastics etc) [03:22:28] I should probably put some comments in Kerbal.cfg [03:22:54] That's still an awful lot of metal from those suits... [03:23:05] is that the 'HumNoNoStop' part of something that recycles a Kerbel? [03:23:21] ve2dmn: based on it [03:23:54] just before I developed the recycling bins for EL, Majiir had made the waitnonostop part for kethane [03:24:22] I decided to model it [03:24:31] :D [03:24:46] hmmm... could recycle the plastics in the suit to kethane, too [03:24:59] reduce some of the negative loss on recycling a kerbal [03:25:38] I will eventually add a recycler to my shipyard, so I can recycle the supply ships... [03:26:31] (...and the Kerbals Too Stupid For Anything Useful...) [03:27:30] Not sure wether to call a mission earlier today a success or failure...Originally wanted to put 3 commsats in orbit around Dres ended up scratching one of them because both solar panels sheared off...and the other two are in orbit but only have one panel each. [03:27:32] Einarr: get them to level 2 or 3: they will not be useless [03:27:38] (depends on the workshop) [03:28:41] taniwha: This is a Sandbox game, Career has gotten boring for me. [03:29:03] Still rather maximize productivity. [03:29:27] oh, in that case they're all level 5 [03:29:35] So Low Stupid and Low Courage is what I'm after. [03:29:35] (or should be!) [03:29:43] They'd better be... [03:29:51] Jeb's 6, but he's Jeb... [03:29:54] actually, if badass, low stupid + high courage [03:30:22] I don't have a way to see that, or set it without manually editing my saves. [03:30:33] Also, you might want to put that in 2.2 [03:30:37] 0,1,true -> productivity 2 :) [03:30:55] Does stupidity have an effect though? [03:31:07] You only mention that badass has an effect there, but don't actually explain what that effect is. [03:31:32] yeah, 2.2 needs more work [03:31:44] I want to get some graphs in [03:32:01] Draconiator: stupidity pulls productivity down [03:32:24] So, without badass, low stupid, low courage, right? [03:32:26] courage: depends, but exacerbates the effect [03:33:20] Einarr: yeah, but no matter what, if stupidity is < 0.5, the kerbal will be productive (and always productive if high enough level) [03:33:45] I'm in Sandbox, may as well minmax... [03:34:13] Not like it costs me anything but time to get good candidates. [03:34:17] (when the kerbal's level is high enough, the productivity gets passed through (sqrt(p^2+1)+p)/2, which maps -inf..inf to 0..inf) [03:35:06] Action: Einarr gets burned by the sudden and unexpected appearance of maths... [03:35:06] so even -2 -> 0.12 [03:35:13] hehe [03:35:37] I tried to avoid having too much math in the manual [03:35:40] for just that reason [03:36:06] 2->2.12 [03:36:28] 0->0.5 [03:37:03] and the range for kerbals is -2..2, and all the above is done /before/ factoring in the workshop's productivity factor [03:39:08] uh oh, it appears Einarr really did burn [03:39:09] So the scansat contract got all confused about which sat was which... but since the primary objective is to map ou the planet, It still gave me my reward... [03:40:25] ... I was deperatly triying to get the newer sat in the right orbit when the contract went: "Ho wow. you already did 50% of the mapping without the directives we gave you? you must be doing something right. Here, have the reward" [03:41:04] heh [03:41:50] And with that, I can finally unlocked the USI ART 'Jaw' [03:43:00] taniwha: Just fired up KSP again to get some screenies...and you know how it keeps you from doing anything else during startup... [03:43:27] but KSP does not keep me from doing anything else during start up [03:43:44] (except the first few seconds until the loading screen comes up) [03:44:02] (I have heard rumors of such, though) [03:45:18] Right, that loading screen takes a few hours for me... [03:45:47] Action: Einarr replaces some blown tubes... [03:45:49] about 5 seconds to get /to/ the loading screen, then I can do whatever I want [03:45:57] but then, I use linux :) [03:46:16] Right, a few hours to get /to/ the loading screen for me... [03:46:28] seriously? [03:46:33] And often at least 5 blown tubes... [03:46:43] hehe [03:46:59] (I know not hours, but that long?) [03:47:06] The fun part is finding which ones in this mess... [03:47:36] You think HDDs are slow...try Core Memory... [03:47:40] if I switch desktops before the loading screen shows, KSP loads on the wrong desktop [03:49:01] What was the key to hide the UI again? [03:49:01] also, it helps that my main machine has two monitors, and I have a second machine with a third monitor and they're connected via synergy so I use one kb+mouse for two machines :) [03:49:05] f2 [03:49:51] It's f12 for the screencap, right? Or is that just a Steam thing... [03:49:52] ha synergy. [03:49:58] Love that software [03:50:02] that's a steam thing [03:50:09] f1 for KSP [03:50:22] which puts the screenshot into /Screenshots [03:51:07] heh, aardvarks are mini elephants (sort of, they're closely related) [03:54:06] https://imgur.com/fvr1hNT [03:54:06] https://i.imgur.com/fvr1hNT.png [03:54:16] https://imgur.com/hReABHD [03:54:16] https://i.imgur.com/hReABHD.png [03:54:28] Action: Einarr smacks kmath with a ruler. [03:54:31] Quiet, you! [03:54:58] nice [03:54:58] That is to be the core of my shipyard. [03:55:18] I'll add resource tanks later, along with the recycler. [03:55:27] Still have to make a launcher for it. [03:55:32] ~30 tons [03:55:37] I'd build it in orbit [03:55:41] Nearly empty, even. [03:55:52] only 150 kerbalhours :) [03:56:15] Erm...I don not have a shipyard in orbit currently... [03:56:24] So unable to build on orbit. [03:56:36] check the section on bootstrapping :) [03:57:19] I also have no other vessels or stations aside from my ScanSat probe enroute to map the Mun. [03:57:34] actually, 4.1's advice on what to put on a station is the bootstrap process [03:58:15] just need something like a science lab (preferably with all 6 seats activated), orbital dock, a supply of rocket parts and a control node [03:58:52] can then build the workbench (only 1.5t, takes 4 kerbals) [03:59:04] and a recycling bin, and more storage [03:59:19] The scence lab only holds 2 Kerbals... [03:59:21] then start building the full core, flying up supplies as needed [03:59:37] there's a mod that patches the lab to hold the six it actually can [04:00:33] Right, in any case, I still have to put /something/ into orbit. Given Sandbox is true, may as well be the core. [04:00:59] I'm sending it up empty aside from monoprop and the tiny amount of fuel for the reactor. [04:01:57] Still ~30 tons, which is nothing for 3.75m rockets... [04:02:03] true [04:03:00] Hmm, filling the workshop only adds ~10 tons... [04:03:16] sounds about right [04:03:34] Whatever launcher I'd overbuild can probably handle that no problem... [04:04:12] By Rocket Workbench, you /do/ mean the big blue one in the screenies, right? [04:04:25] no, the funny tower thing in pods [04:04:32] at least, I think it's still there [04:05:19] Oh, that... it is still there... [04:05:31] ok, couldn't remember if I had moved it [04:05:42] it's actually 4 external command seats [04:05:47] Doesn't look like it'd fit well with the rest of my station anyway. [04:05:56] can always recycle it :) [04:06:02] (when done with it) [04:06:35] Won't need it. [04:06:45] Got a full workshop in the core already. [04:07:17] http://taniwha.org/~bill/screenshot3962.png [04:07:25] wouldn't that be the coolest place to work? :) [04:08:41] Action: Einarr throws a micrometeorite at taniwha's suit at relativistic relative velocities... [04:08:59] bah, killjoy :P [04:12:22] Hmm...I do seem to be short on 3.75m engines... :/ [04:13:55] http://taniwha.org/~bill/screenshot3146.png [04:13:59] 2000t to LKO :) [04:14:52] (getting that thing onto the pad now is rather hit-or-miss, that was KSP 1.0) [04:14:57] Action: Einarr slideshows immediately [04:15:34] yeah, it was... slow [04:15:56] You can do better, though... [04:16:16] Next step, 2000 GT to LKO. [04:16:33] GT? [04:16:38] oh, gigatons [04:16:43] yep [04:17:08] 2*10^12kg... [04:17:25] er, no [04:17:28] 2*10^15kg... [04:17:42] getting up there with Gilly [04:23:03] Minmus is 2.6*10^19kg (if you subscribe to the superdense hypothesis) [04:23:06] Actually, closer to 2.24*10^15 lbs. You're using the wrong units. [04:24:38] the only pounds used for getting to space in the last few decades are British :P [04:28:58] To be more precise, 2.03209*10^15 kg. This is your new launcher requirement. :P [04:31:33] that's a sphere of water 60km across [04:31:47] ie, half the size of Minmus :P [04:32:05] er, no it's not [04:32:39] goofed on t/m^3 and kg/l [04:32:53] 6km across [04:37:20] Did autostruts go away? [04:37:55] no, you need to turn on advanced something [04:38:07] I seem to remember a mod that allowed me to set up how they were used... [04:38:08] you can do it in the in-game settings menu [04:39:26] Advanced what? [04:40:00] Action: Einarr tries Advanced tweakables... [04:40:51] Ah, that was it. [04:42:15] ah, yeah. thanks [04:52:16] Hmm...now I need a mod to view and edit the stats of Kerbals... (i.e. check to see if badass is present, and adjust courage as needed). [04:53:17] ShipManifest used to be capable of that (or was it one of the related mods...), but I don't want to use that one now. [04:55:33] Einarr: might be a good feature for KerbalStats [04:55:53] care to knock up a ui for KS? :) [04:56:00] (save me some work) [04:56:37] KS one of yours? [04:57:11] Or has linuxgurugamer absorbed it (like nearly everything else)? [04:59:26] KS is one of mine [05:00:02] taniwha: I have no experience with UIs in Unity, nor in actually creating one from scratch. Only programming I've done was either console based, or in Visual Basic... [05:00:25] EL has a nice chunk of UI code in it [05:00:44] Not consoles as in those things people play games on, either... [05:01:19] yeah [05:01:34] More like, command prompt, text based affairs... [05:04:02] I'd have to reinstall my programming suite and likely fight with old student keys that may be expired by now before I could even get started... [05:04:39] xterm, make, mono and your favorite text editor :) [05:05:49] At least one of those won't work on my system. [05:06:02] only xterm [05:06:19] but you do have cmd.exe [05:06:22] No, make is definitely a Linux thing. [05:06:29] my point is you don't need a fancy programming suite [05:06:35] Linux things don't work on Windows. [05:06:41] msys, cygwin... [05:06:58] the entire gnu suite is available for windows [05:20:57] behold [05:21:06] the most beautiful aircraft [05:21:08] https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/1/37536_1282093321.jpg [05:22:44] wow, that tail fin is huge [05:23:47] taniwha: rude [05:24:34] taniwha: that's because it's a 727 without the tail engine [05:25:44] no wait [05:26:05] it's a 720, what am I talking about [05:26:08] ignore me [05:26:16] /ignore Rokker [05:26:47] er, hang on, you told me to ignore you, so I shouldn't ignore you because you told me to ignore you [05:27:09] "This sentence is a lie." :) [05:27:57] taniwha: anyways, if you want a big tailfin, you should see what the museum has to offer [05:28:49] https://fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/b-36-1949.jpg [05:29:33] that's not as big, proportionally [05:30:30] taniwha: well, the museum will get a C-5 soonish [05:34:01] taniwha: you know what I always found to have a silly big tailfin [05:34:09] the 747SP [05:34:12] http://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/airliners/9/2/5/1117529.jpg?v=v40 [05:35:00] yeah, that looks proportionally big [05:35:44] taniwha: it's like half the length of a normal 747, with the same sized empennage [05:36:02] might even be a bit larger [06:06:47] oh well. they published the preliminary results of that aircraft crash that happened here few days ago. Long story short - the crew did not turn on pitot tubes heating. Of all thre of them. [06:07:36] haha [06:13:11] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBUFNgLrykc [06:13:11] YouTube - The Smallest Rocket - The SS-520-5 [06:15:11] several days old [06:25:23] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJWQoEMJEBw - I think someone went crazy lol [06:25:23] YouTube - KSP - 109 KILOTON Launch Vehicle! | Full stock | No auto-struts | No part-clipping [06:28:24] Gasher[work]: not gonna lie, I question Russian aviation [06:28:28] like in general [06:28:35] maybe Russia wasn't meant to fly [06:29:34] why lol [06:30:06] Gasher[work]: you guys celebrated 70 years of the An-2 by crashing one in front of a ton of spectators [06:30:13] it's not that they all started falling at once [06:30:21] Rokker, ha. [06:30:45] maybe it was a sign that it should be cycled to something better [06:30:57] or that you should not allow old people to pilot [06:31:59] Rokker, http://www.heraldextra.com/news/three-die-in-helicopter-crash-accident-in-parleys-canyon-kills/article_12ef415e-44c7-5c9e-a084-032ff28e7d9b.html [06:32:04] Gasher[work]: I'm not sure how I feel about that composite thing [06:32:08] MOOSE RESCUE MISSION [06:32:30] helicopters are an abomination against god [06:34:13] i think the permission for flight is given by some other authorities [07:29:13] taniwha: You need to up your launcher game, sir (thanks to Draconiator for finding this). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJWQoEMJEBw [07:29:13] YouTube - KSP - 109 KILOTON Launch Vehicle! | Full stock | No auto-struts | No part-clipping [07:30:22] crikey! [07:30:46] hasn't launched yet [07:30:55] heh, dwarfs the VAB [07:33:55] Einarr: heh, skyscraper :) [08:41:20] Wasn't there a way to toggle the heat overlay? [08:42:27] Ah, there it is. [09:56:04] hi, i'm reinstalling ksp after a few year without playing [09:56:13] what version is now cool if i want to have a shitload of addons ? [09:57:50] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DV60eXsVQAAwZq4.jpg "group of 380 million people steals 3 yen in cash" [09:58:04] and is it now cool to play in 64 bits ? [10:01:10] for a long time now [11:45:48] so someone is claiming each of those scales is only a nanometer wide but eh [11:45:50] https://78.media.tumblr.com/752c925960d352a522d4eaff1fdeb52d/tumblr_p441fzafbH1u0zq0uo2_540.jpg [11:45:52] doubt [12:16:49] If that's an insect head and not a weird molecule, they confused micro with nano. [12:32:46] hello everyone [12:33:32] hello ? [12:35:32] hi [12:35:34] argh [12:35:42] can we turn this feature off? [13:18:08] Althego: Which feature? [13:45:07] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o APlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [13:49:04] hope I will get enough money on my bday to get a 3d printer [13:52:23] Get a DIY kit [13:52:45] nah I want a cr10 mini [13:52:59] it's on promo right now for 250� which is very decent [13:53:06] Those are cheaper, as far as I have seen from friends just as good, and probably fun to assemble. Also, IKEA. [13:53:07] and I don't want to spend two weeks making it work [13:53:32] like I wouldn't mind a diy kit usually but I want something that works well [13:53:46] Well, then [13:54:03] https://www.banggood.com/Creality-3D-CR-10-Mini-DIY-3D-Printer-Kit-Support-Resume-Print-300220300mm-Large-Printing-Size-p-1201287.html?rmmds=mywishlist&cur_warehouse=CN [13:56:29] "8. Passed lots of quality certification." [13:56:37] Once more, KSP in a nutshell :P [13:56:46] yeah broken english [13:56:51] gotta love it [13:58:00] When I see such a sentence, I can't help but picture someone reading a test protocol, totally ignoring it and just crossing everything off the checklist [13:58:23] heh [14:07:47] APlayer, I assume that sentence was gramatically correct in chinese [14:15:35] How much delta-v can a KSP rocket have? [14:16:50] iirc absolute max is about 17k? [14:17:06] 17 km/s? [14:17:09] yeah [14:17:21] unless you go ion [14:17:34] multi stage? [14:17:49] yeah [14:18:18] ok, I'll try 20 km/s without ion. [14:28:47] Why would 17 km/s be max? [14:29:17] Whatever rocket you have, add another tank and you increased dv [14:34:08] Adding tanks asymptotically approaches max dv. [14:34:11] ^ [14:34:16] rocket equation is a thing [14:34:34] Rocket equation is logarithmic? [14:34:56] oh ya [14:35:09] But adding stages should increase dv infinitely. But each stage must be bigger than the next one. [14:35:47] dv=v_e*ln(m0/m1) [14:35:57] yeah that's the thing [14:36:09] logarithm isn't aspymptotic. [14:36:10] you can't keep adding bigger stages :v [14:36:21] Why? [14:36:24] Run out of memory? [14:36:28] or mass [14:36:38] there's only so much fuel on kerbin :v [14:36:42] Or VAB height? [14:36:45] yeah [14:36:49] there's a mod for that but [14:36:55] I can assemble stuff in orbit. [14:37:12] That gets tedious, though. [14:37:13] you're already working around the rocket limitation by doing that [14:37:35] launching smaller parts and assembling them later does wonders for your dv range [14:37:58] So, dv = ve * ln(m0/m1) = ve * (ln m0 - ln m1). As you increase m0, ln m0 >> ln m1 so we can drop that term, and we have dv = ln m0 [14:38:09] ve * ln m0, even [14:38:21] Nothing asymptotic there [14:38:33] Anyway, I am off for lunch, please ;tell me if I messed up [14:38:38] no, but a part of your rocket mass is tanks [14:38:43] and in ksp that part is pretty large [14:38:58] hence, you won't get much past 17km/s unless you can somehow make a rocket bigger than kerbin [14:49:18] Does nerve count? [14:49:32] Action: ve2dmn crawls out of his bed... [14:49:48] good morning... [14:51:19] ve2dmn: What's your time? [14:51:31] time for a headache [14:52:36] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [14:53:00] 9:52 [14:54:57] Truga: The tyranny of the rocket equation [14:55:17] yeah [14:56:26] I calculated that with 999999999999999999 FL-T800 tanks and a single LV-N engine, you get 17.26139628km/s of dv [14:56:49] nice [14:56:57] Google Sheets [14:58:01] was trying to move asteroids, so I made a giant sheets with the amount of dv with 1 LV-N with various amount of tanks [14:58:13] What's the nickname of LV-N? [14:58:19] nuke [14:58:20] :v [14:58:40] Since the T800 (up to Orange tanks) are the most usefull, I went with that ratio of mass/fuel [14:59:00] I think orange tank isn't that far off? [14:59:15] but yeah, t800 fits nicely with lv-n [14:59:16] They all have a ratio of 9 dry/wet [14:59:22] ah [14:59:33] T100, 200, 400 or 800 [15:00:06] and the X200-8, X200-16, X200-32 and Jumbo-64 tanks [15:00:39] even the Oscar-B [15:00:56] The Kerbodyne (XL tanks) have a ratio of 8.2 [15:01:11] Only the Mk3 Rocket fuel fuselage is better at 9.33 [15:01:37]