[01:30:18] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+v eriophora' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [02:37:35] Last message repeated 1 time(s). [02:37:35] bwoop [04:48:51] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [04:50:42] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptor' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [09:01:39] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [11:35:20] so, irrespective of all the unupdated mods, should i try salvaging my last carreer save? otherwise i'll start over and get exactly as far as every time, which is i'm never reaching duna/eve or any other place outside kerbin SoI [11:53:21] I know that problem [12:07:20] that's why I'm playing stock [12:07:28] and struggling with everything [12:08:29] "last played: 27. Okt 2018", that can't be right [12:20:32] so, starting up the game it complained about FAR more than all the other mods... anything i should know? [12:23:31] Eddi|zuHause, why not just continue with your old save until the mods have been updated, and only then upgrade KSP? [12:24:24] nah [12:25:24] Eddi|zuHause, what version is FAR officially compatible with? [12:26:55] so, load menu still not sorted by file date... [12:27:11] also, i click "load" and it doesn't do anything [12:31:16] console just says "nullreferenceexception" [12:36:46] according to CKAN FAR Continued is compatible with 1.8.99 [12:37:12] i try without it now [12:40:21] yeah, loading now [12:48:37] 1.8.99?? [12:49:07] i assume that means 1.8.* [12:49:39] as in "we're confident that no 1.8.x update will break this" [13:02:36] sounds right [13:06:20] the version thing has become more confusing than useful, I think. linuxgurugamer doesn't even set the max version anymore [13:08:23] I guess for some mods there's just no reason to set a max version [13:08:37] as long as the API is not changing they will just work fine [13:09:34] anyway, i'm declaring FAR as "known broken" for 1.9 [13:10:03] nothing else seems to have any immediately obvious problem [13:11:21] Eddi|zuHause: the forum thread says you should try the pre-release if you want FAR [13:11:27] now, last thing i was doing is trying to get my minimus base further uphill to get out of the one spot on north pole that doesn't get any sun [13:11:39] packbart: have a link? [13:12:33] https://github.com/dkavolis/Ferram-Aerospace-Research/releases/tag/v0.15.11.4_Mach https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/179445-18-ferram-aerospace-research-continued-v015113-mach-271019/&do=findComment&comment=3740621 [13:14:44] anyway, i'm assuming i don't need FAR outside the atmosphere, so i'll just continue like this for now [13:18:38] Eddi|zuHause: well, if you only build bases an Minmus no wonder you never get to Duna ;) [13:18:58] tipping over sideways and rolling on minimus is so silly, but seems to be working :p [13:19:27] but i never know which of the WASD keys turns me the direction i want [13:23:05] I got the same problem :D [13:25:37] i REALLY need the load game window sorted by date :/ [13:27:08] Eddi|zuHause: write a bug report :) [13:28:51] huh, i loaded an autosave and my rocket disappeared [13:34:36] and now it crashed [13:34:43] the game, not the rocket [14:16:46] will we see a KSP 1.10? this looks weird: https://github.com/MuMech/MechJeb2/commit/802fe36b253a98a1dd81e57791eb3f76402052ea [14:17:32] why does it look weird? [14:17:33] argh, space after paren [14:18:44] would creating a modular base, assembling it in space and land it on Eve work? [14:18:53] from a structural point of view [14:18:55] hatrix: it needs to be adjusted for every new version. since new changes aren't predictable, I'd test for >= 8 [14:19:10] the question is, would it work from heat point of view [14:19:42] packbart: I see it as a limiter for which version of KSP it works, no problem there [14:19:46] but I didn't look at the code [14:20:00] Althego: with enough heatshields I guess [14:20:10] I just wanted to know if docking ports are sturdy enough [14:20:18] probably [14:20:28] you can turn on autostruts in flight after assembly [14:20:40] yep, I was thinking about this [14:21:02] I'll make some prototypes in sandbox, I'm tired of spending money on garbage crafts [14:21:12] (oh, hi) [14:21:18] I had a docking port on a long pile of 200 EC batteries. It flexed insanely. Switched to cubic struts. [14:21:22] hatrix: those limits often lead to confusion and are not necessary. imho, ymmv. it works with 1.9 even without that change [15:06:18] Magic asteroid: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot9.png [15:07:06] a rare find [15:07:16] i kinda wish i could tell SAS a heading and keep it on that [15:07:35] there used to be a mod for this [15:07:39] some pilot something [15:07:50] for airplanes [15:08:11] actually for the shortest route you dont want to keep heading [15:08:12] MechJeb and others [15:09:07] Althego: An asteroid randomly takes its final shape/size etc. when you get to within 2.2 km. So I stop beyond that, save, then approach it as often till I find one I like. [15:09:17] hehe [15:09:26] s/size/mass [15:09:29] the good old save and retry method [15:09:33] ore content ... [15:09:52] This time I wanted a lightweight magic one. [15:09:59] Easier to push. [15:10:19] FAR has "flight assistance toggles" but i have no clue what they do [15:10:58] @Althego: not always true. For points directly north or south of you, a constant heading is the shortest route. [15:11:43] that is why i said it. unlike really specific scenarios you must change heading for shortest route [15:12:08] in the general case [15:12:22] Technically, you dont need to change heading so much as that your heading will change on its own. You are still going the same direction. [15:12:46] yes, but if you have a heading setpoint on a compass, that must move [15:12:57] so for long distance navigation that would not be a good solution [15:13:17] Correct. There is a (now obsolete) workaround for this problem. [15:13:52] You plan your flight in legs of 100 miles or so, and take up a new heading for each leg. [15:14:21] this lets you maintain a compass heading, while gaining the benefits of great circle navigation. [15:14:45] hah, i dont believe you. nobody would use miles :) [15:14:51] well, i could do that, but i'm not travelling that far anyway [15:15:17] Actually, pretty much everyone uses (nautical) miles for aviation. [15:15:34] yes, nautical miles [15:15:37] China and Russia being good counter-examples [15:15:38] not miles [15:15:50] miles != statute miles [15:16:02] miles is the set that contains nautical miles and statute miles [15:16:36] the only non si unit i can think of as making some sense is the nautical miles. maybe knots along with it [15:16:38] and just for the heck of it, it also contains country miles [15:16:41] i'm also not technically doing aviation :p [15:17:18] Over a short distance, you can safely ignore great circles as having an appreciable impact on your navigation [15:17:26] obviosuly [15:17:37] thus flat earthers are born [15:18:04] people who dont navigate long distance? Makes sense. People can travel a long way these days without having to think much... hmm. [15:25:10] my current problem is that i'm rolling constantly (intentionally) and that means correcting for heading needs a different WASD key at every moment in time, so i can only do that if i stop rolling [15:25:40] ah yes i know that problem [15:25:58] but i dont use that for longer distances than from the launchpad to the vab area :) [15:34:20] distance left is about 2.5km, not sure how precisely i have set the waypoint [15:42:03] will martian settlers use km or martian mile for navigation? :) [15:42:38] Id vote for km [15:43:36] Im sure at some point aviation will end up moving to metric in the rest of the world outside the former soviet republics + China [15:44:12] Althego: depends on if they elect a "mars first" guy as a leader that, whatever everyone else thinks, does the opposite. [15:44:13] If we have a multiple planet society, it makes sense to have standards common everywhere [15:44:41] And taking nautical miles and using them elsewhere takes away all the usefulness they have on Earth [15:44:59] Blu3wolf: politics on that level rarely happens based on "it makes sense" [15:45:26] Depends on who is setting the standard. If its a politician, then of course. If its an engineer/scientist.... [15:45:34] Note that NASA is using metric. [15:45:39] it'll never be an engineer/scientist [15:46:15] I have to say, it feels weird flying an aircraft with metric instrumentation [15:46:20] trust me i'm an engineer :) [15:46:39] Ive got a little time in a CJ-6A and its just weird flying at 330m instead of 1000ft [15:47:31] never flew in any cockpit that was not a simulator :) [15:47:41] but that's only because you got taught it that way, not that one way is better than the other [15:47:53] thats the point Im making :) [15:48:24] si is better. defeated by a single question. how many feet in a mile? [15:48:31] 6000 [15:48:37] NASA uses a mix of systems and can use "meter" and "feet" in the same sentence [15:49:07] also all units for electricity are si, probably doesnt mix well with imperial units [15:49:15] Didnt know that about NASA, but its true in aviation [15:49:42] if they used millimiles for altitude i would be content [15:49:43] vis is in meters and kilometers, altitude is in feet, separation is in feet, distances are in nautical miles... [15:49:47] but no, they use feet [15:50:18] except in the US, where vis is in statute miles (!) [15:50:44] really dont understand that. Why mix nautical miles and statute miles!?? [15:51:26] souls on board and fuel remaining [15:51:40] fuel in pounds, kg, tonnes, minutes [15:51:59] fuel is a PAIN [15:52:00] at least counting people is not that complicated [15:52:14] 1.9km [15:52:39] aircraft are american, so the manual will have fuel in pounds. But the placards are local, and the ops manual is local, so the limits are in litres [15:52:56] hehe [15:53:10] still better than timezones :) [15:53:11] and technically: fuel isnt measured in minutes - endurance is [15:53:35] whats wrong with timezones? [15:53:52] the one NASA text I thought of was talking about Curiosity's skycrane extending a 20ft rope 6m above the surface [15:53:54] nothing. except they change their location and offset from time to time [15:53:58] can't find that anymore [15:54:23] I mean, Id argue that the timezones themselves dont move [15:54:33] their edges move [15:54:39] Just that some areas decide to observe a different timezone from time to time [15:54:54] ther are also half out and quarter our offsets too [15:54:56] they arent a geographic concept to have 'edges' [15:55:28] watch is set to zulu time, no matter where I go. Keeps it simple for me [15:55:35] hehe [15:55:52] although I might need to set it because it looks a couple minutes fast :/ [15:55:59] showing 1557 atm [15:56:27] only 56 now :) [15:56:36] (in a same timezone) [15:56:42] tis not a terribly expensive watch :/ [15:57:07] *sane timezone [16:09:02] guess what ima go see one last time before it goes back to Washington [16:09:29] trump's hair? [16:11:07] huh, I thought politics was still banned [16:11:16] hair is not politics [16:11:21] the Columbia module [16:12:41] Althego: one question that bothers me is still if it is sentient or not. [16:16:03] 1km... [16:19:34] where is it now Rokker? [16:19:45] it can be only one place :) [16:21:43] they totally should put wheels on it and use it as a bus [16:21:59] where is it? :o [16:22:39] oh right, I was thinking of a Shuttle, not a Module [16:22:55] use what? rocker? or the columbia module? not really a bus with place for only 3 people [16:23:09] hatrix: "As of September 28, 2019, the spacecraft is on display temporarily at the Cincinnati Museum Center." [16:23:17] ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_module_Columbia ) [16:24:02] not quite there yet, but at least i got sunlight here to recharge [16:24:09] Althego: name collision. and I remembered that the Columbia shuttle did not make it back [16:24:25] too few labels and too many things :) [16:24:37] maybe we should just number everything like astronomers do :) [16:25:01] we could use say 256 bit unique hashes :) [16:25:34] like TMA-nnn? [16:25:43] that sounds not nearly enough [16:28:25] uuid4 [16:29:14] names should be human-readable [16:29:26] tha we just need to change humans [16:29:35] then [16:29:38] that's overdue, anyway [16:30:04] packbart: if they sold us "XML is human-readable", then surely hashes are [16:30:11] hehehe [16:30:32] thousand other formats, json, yaml, toml [16:30:39] and none work well :) [16:30:45] To bring a class E asteroid in Eve orbit I planned an Eve flyby to change plane *and* get another encounter a few years later: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot12.png [16:31:13] ahah nice [16:34:10] I wonder if it saves delta-v. The new orbit is more eccentric. But I want an equatorial orbit. We'll see how well the asteroid tolerates aerobraking. I'm afraid not enough. [16:36:15] can asteroids desintegrate in atmospheres? [16:37:30] yes, they can overheat [16:38:26] maxTemp = 2500 // way hotter than the melting point of "Ore" but oh well. [16:39:47] hmmm [16:40:02] would it be easier to capture an asteroid and use it as a heatshield to land on eve? [16:40:10] melting point of ore. what is the melting point of boku? :) [16:40:14] in contrast of using regular heatshields [16:49:34] almost at the peak now [16:49:39] great. I had to restart Firefox and now the ranty posts on the forum that I were about to read have already been redacted :) [16:49:54] someone didn't like JNSQ [16:51:41] Redaction for the w [16:51:46] lol elon and the evangelion tweet [16:54:14] If I manage to pull off this maneuver, I'm the master of chaos, because this is literally a chaotic situation. And by literally, I literally mean literally. [16:54:55] Not like ... "She literally broke my heart." ... [16:55:21] chaos is everywhere [16:55:54] Chaos wins. Einstein said so. [16:55:58] chaotic neutral, chaotic good or chaotic evil? [16:56:15] Mhm, but tiny variations in the first flyby have a strong influence on the second flyby. [16:56:21] https://xkcd.com/2251/ [16:56:39] Like tears of a unicorn, lost in the rain [16:56:48] chaos theory only has an impact over many flybys [16:57:21] a cant yet quote gloryhammer [16:57:34] irl maybe, where real rocket scientists calculate real trajectories. [16:57:35] but i wanna set the universe on fir [16:57:36] e [16:57:55] over few flybys you just need good precision [16:58:29] It's still chaos, cause tiny variations have large effects ... so you need good precision. [16:59:08] no, chaos means "precision doesn't help you at all" [16:59:17] tiny variation having a huge effect is not chaos. it is just a very steep function [16:59:47] chaos is when tiny amount of deviation cause completely different history from the predicted one [17:02:26] chaotic hashes [17:02:54] chaos means no amount of precision will stabilize your output [17:03:49] packbart: Fun fact the Cincinnati Museum Center is the basis for the Justice Leagues place [17:04:33] I'd say it is chaos, but not very deep into it. [17:18:45] i think i have found a "good enough" spot for this base... now need to actually assemble it [18:22:32] hmm, cygnus in 2 hours 20 minutes? [18:22:45] it was delayed several times already [18:29:27] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiEe8S5Nbs8 [18:29:27] YouTube - Knight Rider Theme on an Electric Toothbrush, Card Machines and a Typewriter [18:31:37] this reminds me, there was no wintergatan video this week either [18:44:40] yep [18:44:58] I'm withdrawl syndromes [18:45:44] *getting [18:53:04] Mat2ch is withdrawal symptoms personified [18:53:47] Oh yes [18:54:17] when I show up, you suddenly feel like you're missing something all the time [19:08:32] Hehe [19:08:48] It's true! I need chocolate! [19:09:29] that's what you think, but the feeling wont go away with it [20:06:05] scott [20:06:28] in a kerbal t-shiort [20:12:57] and cygnus moved to tomorrow [20:13:03] that was exzpected [20:13:09] good, i want to go to bed anyway [21:13:47] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [22:10:15] so, using KAS still causes random things to be catapulted into the sky [22:17:30] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptor' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net