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[03:57:45] <Althego> haha short stream was 9.5 hours. zombie is coming
[04:04:08] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[04:22:09] <raptop> How long until kiara does a collab with Okayu and/or Korone?
[04:38:33] <Althego> who can stream longer duel
[04:41:21] <raptop> heh
[05:20:46] <Althego> pi reading. let's go
[05:52:01] <Souptime> soub
[05:55:10] <Althego> i still cant communicate in soub
[06:30:59] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[08:13:58] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Judge_Dedd' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[09:50:37] <NGC3982> hi guys
[09:51:46] Action: raptop x_x
[09:54:11] <darsie> hi guy
[09:54:25] <darsie> NGC3982: How far away are you?
[09:54:43] <NGC3982> swede n
[09:54:46] <NGC3982> also sweden.
[09:55:07] <darsie> I thought you'd be at least 100 ly away ;).
[09:55:08] <Mat2ch> I think that was a joke about your nickname :D
[09:55:14] <NGC3982> oh, lol
[09:55:20] <NGC3982> that flew right over my head
[09:55:29] <Althego> hehe
[09:55:31] <Mat2ch> 68 mio ly says Wikipedia
[09:55:31] <NGC3982> i think im about 68MLy from tellus
[09:55:33] Action: raptop is currently in the impact bay area
[09:55:37] <darsie> ic :)
[09:55:48] <darsie> Where/what is tellus?
[09:55:58] <Althego> Distance	68.1 ± 2.5 Mly (20.89 ± 0.77 Mpc)[2]
[09:55:58] <NGC3982> a planet in some galaxy 68Mly away
[09:56:14] <Althego> that is far
[09:56:43] <NGC3982> i think i had a standard candle in my belly a few years ago
[09:57:52] <raptop> wikiality mentions SN1998aq as a Type Ia
[10:00:23] <Mat2ch> .oO( child inside of my head asks: Can we go for a visit? Can we? Can we? - I wonder how to explain to him that we don't have ftl drives yet )
[10:01:00] <Mat2ch> and even with FTL drives it could take decades to get there.
[10:02:30] <raptop> Imagine discovering an FTL drive, but it only gets you to sqrt(2)*c
[10:03:44] <NGC3982> shouldnt sqrt(2)*c decrease the travel time significantly?
[10:04:17] <raptop> Yes, it'll take just barely under 3 years to get to alpha centauri
[10:05:53] <NGC3982> does travel time decrease linear with multiples of c?
[10:06:04] <NGC3982> i thought it would be exponential if possible
[10:06:09] <NGC3982> at least for the traveler 
[10:06:46] <raptop> We're in fake physics land, so whatever
[10:07:11] <NGC3982> but travel time doesnt decrease linearly from <c to c either, right?
[10:07:26] <NGC3982> 0,5c isnt 2*travel time in c to alpha centauri and so on
[10:07:34] <darsie> Does time pass at c?
[10:07:53] <Truga> depends, are you a photon? :v
[10:07:55] <darsie> It does, in a warp bubble
[10:08:12] <NGC3982> warp booblets
[10:15:02] <Althego> heh google, webrtc and the cursed extensions on rtp and rtcp
[10:18:36] <NGC3982> must be nice to be on this network right now
[10:18:46] <Althego> and not on leenode :)
[10:18:48] <NGC3982> ever since irc turned into game of thrones
[10:19:34] Action: NGC3982 quickly registers #ksp2official 
[10:19:53] <Truga> lol
[10:20:30] <Althego> hehe
[10:20:31] <Althego> do it now
[10:20:42] <Althego> but actually supposedly this is that channel too
[10:20:53] <NGC3982> i hope so
[10:20:56] <NGC3982> no need for separation
[10:26:37] <Althego> if there wasnt need for separation, the creator wouldnt have given the kerbals the sepratron :)
[10:28:26] <NGC3982> hehe
[10:30:25] <Mat2ch> I have hopes that this channel will get a bit more active when KSP2 drops
[10:30:34] <Mat2ch> but I'm still not sure how good KSP2 will be.
[10:30:44] <betelgeuse> i am so thankful this channel is active though
[10:30:58] <betelgeuse> makes the game so much less painful because people will help you
[10:30:59] <Althego> active with about 6 people
[10:31:17] <betelgeuse> 6 very nice and very helpful people
[10:31:23] <Mat2ch> If they have somehow increased the part limit to 20k (on a moderate CPU and with decent fps) I will be impressed.
[10:31:41] <Mat2ch> betelgeuse: you are too kind
[10:31:44] <Mat2ch> :)
[10:31:59] <betelgeuse> is there a planned feature list
[10:32:24] <Althego> there was for ksp on the wiki
[10:32:32] <betelgeuse> if there aint windtunnel in there, i am not buying it
[10:32:52] <Althego> yes, there is a wind tunnel in the science complex, and you cant use it
[10:33:09] <Mat2ch> we even will get procedural wings!
[10:33:21] <betelgeuse> nice
[10:33:23] <Mat2ch> and I bet no Linux version.
[10:33:30] <Mat2ch> With the comment: Use proton, it works fine
[10:33:30] <betelgeuse> i hope not
[10:33:35] <Mat2ch> yeah, thanks.
[10:33:55] <betelgeuse> i was really impressed with the linux port of ksp, would be really sad to see it go
[10:34:47] <Mat2ch> That port was never really well optimized. :(
[10:34:51] <Althego> since it is on unity, probably realtively easy to port
[10:34:59] <Mat2ch> They just used Unity and clicked on the "Export for Linux" button.
[10:35:02] <Althego> well, optimization is an other task :)
[10:35:28] <Mat2ch> And I really really hope that they don't use Unity anymore.
[10:35:43] <Mat2ch> C# is crap and Mono slower than Java. And I have Java :P
[10:35:57] <Althego> i think ksp2 uses unity too
[10:36:10] <Althego> that is why i didnt get, why they needed to rewrite the game compeltely
[10:36:15] <Althego> if they are using the same engine
[10:36:26] <Althego> or was this before the big delay?
[10:37:21] <Althego> wiki says. windows, playstation and xbox. no linux. but it may be inaccureate, engine is not listed
[10:38:28] <Mat2ch> That was before the rewrite.
[10:38:39] <Mat2ch> I guess they started by analyzing what they had
[10:39:13] <Mat2ch> then realized that the code is not very well written and flexible and started from scratch (minus the 3d models, which is a huge part)
[10:39:30] <Mat2ch> I'd go for a JSON format for the craft files e.g.
[10:39:45] <Mat2ch> You don't need to write your own parser for this.
[10:39:53] <Mat2ch> It's all there. Just use it.
[10:40:09] <Althego> you never need to write you own parser, just choose a format
[10:40:24] <Althego> people will wage wars about that too
[10:40:32] <Althego> but at least you dont need your broken implementation
[10:40:41] <Mat2ch> The craft files are their own format.
[10:40:53] <Althego> i know
[10:41:00] <Mat2ch> Weird choice btw.
[10:41:14] <Mat2ch> But that's only one small portion of the problem, I guess
[10:41:52] <Mat2ch> The current parser isn't broken. It seems they did a decent job there. But it takes time to do that which you can spend somewhere else.
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[12:03:21] <Mat2ch> what I really wonder about SpaceX's OLIT is why they removed the stairs.
[12:03:52] <Mat2ch> They have only a lift now. What if a fire breaks out and the lift is unusable?
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[12:14:57] <FLHerne> The section added yesterday has stairs
[12:15:15] <FLHerne> So stairlessness is probably a temporary thing for whatever reason
[12:15:41] <FLHerne> Anyway, it's a big empty steel structure, I'm not sure it's possible for there to *be* a fire...
[12:16:09] <FLHerne> The wooden boards on those scaffolding platforms might be flammable, but there's no way for it to spread
[12:52:34] <Deddly> Talking of fire, I was amused to see that the Ice Hotel in the north of Sweden has fire extinguishers and smoke detectors in every corridoor.
[12:58:07] <packbart> you wouldn't want to drown in a flooded hotel corridor
[12:58:28] <Truga> also ice won't melt quick enough to extinguish a fire before it kills a bunch of people
[13:07:34] <Mat2ch> Deddly: the blankets and pillows still can burn
[13:18:10] <Mat2ch> https://youtu.be/BCPitw8tdMY?t=101 great render
[13:20:51] <Mat2ch> Althego: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyDkJ0-V19I
[13:20:59] <Mat2ch> since you like streams :D
[13:25:59] <Deddly> Truga, the hotel is literally made of ice and snow, even the structural elements. The only thing flammable is the bedsheets, and even then it won't be possible for a fire to spread
[13:26:14] <Deddly> I mean Mat2ch 
[13:27:11] <Deddly> Of course, it's a simple matter of regulations for public buildings. But I thought it was funny
[13:35:55] <Mat2ch> Deddly: most often not the fire kills you, but the smoke. If the bedsheets and pillows burn then this can become a serious health issue
[13:36:18] <Mat2ch> so having a fire extinguisher and smoke detectors is a good thing
[13:36:47] <Deddly> This is true.
[13:37:12] <Deddly> I think they had fire hoses, too
[14:26:18] <Mat2ch> the power grid in southern France doesn't seem to be very stable.
[14:27:06] <Althego> solar backup!
[14:29:30] <Mat2ch> yeah, that power grid really needs local backups...
[14:32:51] <Althego> we really need to get over the problem of core power vs green power. and the only way to do it is with storage
[14:33:21] <flayer> i'm exhausted Althego 
[14:33:31] <flayer> its too hot
[14:33:41] <Althego> nowhere near hot here
[14:33:55] <Althego> maybe this week we reach 30
[14:34:10] <Althego> until then i dont classify this as summer
[14:34:15] <flayer> its going to be 30 this thursday
[14:42:42] <Deddly> 30 gets a severe weather warning over here
[14:43:08] <flayer> you're in sweden
[14:43:14] <flayer> anything above freezing is summer
[14:43:35] <Deddly> Pretty much
[14:43:35] <flayer> "oh we are not living in perpetual darkness, it must summer"
[14:43:49] <Althego> hehe
[14:45:27] <Deddly> The meteorological definition of summer in Sweden is when you have an average temperature of more than 10 for five days and nights in a row.
[14:46:16] <Deddly> But of course we locals know it's summer when the polar bears migrate north to the sea ice.
[15:03:51] <Althego> bird is a bit late
[15:05:48] <darsie> Althego is so cryptic.
[15:09:24] <Althego> kikkerikii
[16:00:50] <Mat2ch> darsie: it's always the stream. ;)
[16:01:10] <darsie> bird?
[16:01:14] <darsie> hmm
[16:01:19] <darsie> kikkerikii
[16:01:32] <Mat2ch> the start of the stream is always this
[16:01:51] <Mat2ch> I have never seen it, but I guess it's a rooster.
[16:02:13] <Mat2ch> flayer: I'm living in darkness now, because it IS summer.
[16:02:19] <Mat2ch> I want to keep the heat out :(
[16:03:50] <Althego> hehe
[16:23:05] <raptop> No, it's definitely a phoenix and not a chicken or rooster >_>
[17:33:52] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[19:40:41] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[19:40:41] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Judge_Dedd' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[20:51:42] Action: raptop sees that zombie spent an hour reciting(?) pi, and is confused
[20:57:52] <Solar_Oracle> The light of another star returns!
[20:58:59] Action: raptop ducks behind a few meters of regolith
[20:59:45] <Solar_Oracle> Regolith will not save you know, all will be incinerated!
[21:00:02] Action: Solar_Oracle rains fire from the Heavens
[21:00:55] <Solar_Oracle> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFygZVtYGYM
[21:01:00] Action: raptop is reminded of 40k exterminatus
[21:02:20] <Solar_Oracle> I also have that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSlt8IF_a8w
[21:02:58] <Solar_Oracle> I've yet to Exterminatus anyone in Battlefleet Gothic, though.
[21:12:21] Action: raptop assumes that it's sort of difficult when they can maneuver and fire back
[21:13:56] <Solar_Oracle> Well, in the tabletop game, you actually had to get your assigned Exterminatus ship within a certain distance of the target world. Destruction of enemy assets is just a bonus.
[21:14:21] <Solar_Oracle> The only time in which you did it in the video game campaign is when you were unable to retake a world.
[21:14:41] <raptop> ah
[21:15:21] <Solar_Oracle> The tabletop game even had a special, "table" for low orbit operations (such as in assault scenarios where you'd land troops) where the defenders would get cheap and fairly powerful surface-to-orbit weapons.
[21:17:59] <Solar_Oracle> IE: A Defense Laser Silo with a strength 3 lance battery (three chances to damage any ship on any D6 roll of 4+ per shot) would have 6+ armor and only cost 15 points.
[21:18:50] <Solar_Oracle> By contrast, the absolute cheapest ship in the Imperial Navy, a Cobra-class destroyer, would cost 30 points with only 4+ armor saves.
[21:19:19] <Solar_Oracle> And its weaponry? Two prow launched torpedoes and a nearly worthless Strength 1 gun battery.
[21:19:32] <raptop> whelp
[21:20:22] <Solar_Oracle> Alternatively, a Missile Silo with a Strength 6 torpedo battery (equivalent to three Cobra-class ships emptying their tubes at once) would cost even less at 5 points per silo!
[21:21:34] <raptop> That makes it sound like it would be easy to make landings nigh-impossible. Unless you can bombard them from high orbit?
[21:21:50] <Solar_Oracle> And at 20 points, you could get an Air Base with 4 squadrons of fighters or bombers for a modest 20 points. Prior to the Battlefleet Gothic: Armada supplement, the absolute cheapest ship in the IN with a fighter complement would have been the 220 point Dictator-class Cruiser. 
[21:22:58] <Solar_Oracle> Well each of those emplacements only has 1 hitpoint apiece (identical to most escorts), and IN cruisers are pretty tough with 8 hitpoints plus 3 turrets to shoot down any oncoming torpedoes and strikecraft.
[21:23:15] <Solar_Oracle> Torpedoes are also not guaranteed to hit even if their target doesn't shoot them down during the Ordinance Phase.
[21:23:47] <Solar_Oracle> But the game really justifies why it's not a trivial matter to assault a well defended world
[21:24:15] <bees> unrealistic:(
[21:25:02] <Solar_Oracle> And the number of points the defender can use on defenses is determined by a combination of dice rolls and the attacker's total score.
[21:25:19] <bees> btw, how does futuristic space settings deal with the issue of "any sufficiently maneuvreable ship is a exterminatus-class kinetic missile"?
[21:26:02] <Solar_Oracle> Kinetic? Why bother with kinetic when you have Warp Core explosions?
[21:26:29] <bees> good enough to kill a planet
[21:27:40] <Solar_Oracle> If a ship actually suffers a Warp Core Implosion, ships within a certain radius of the exploding vessel suffer automatic lance attacks equivalent to the ship's starting strength. IE: A normal IN Cruiser with a WPI could cause up to 8 hits, easily crippling other cruisers and almost certainly wiping out any escorts. 
[21:28:22] <Solar_Oracle> We also don't have much info on the actual speed of ships in Warhammer 40k, and heavily industrialized worlds tend to have planetary shielding.
[21:29:33] <Solar_Oracle> Besides, you sometimes want to capture stuff, the same as in real life. I mean, you can't use a nuclear weapon for EVERYTHING.
[21:29:39] <bees> ?
[21:30:30] <raptop> no, bad bees! Stop touching the SLBM controls!
[21:30:50] <Solar_Oracle> OH GOD NOT THE BEES THEY'RE IN MY CIRCUIRTY! NOT THE BEES! NO NOT THE BEES! ARGHH!
[21:31:39] <raptop> 40k is a setting where monastaries make perfectly reasonable warpships, so things are a bit silly
[21:33:18] <Solar_Oracle> What's really funny is that, in the tabletop game, inertia was a major limiting for all but Eldar and Necron ships, and stopping was a big deal that required passing a leadership roll for assuming special orders. In the video game, it's nothing
[21:34:14] <raptop> hah
[21:34:30] <Solar_Oracle> Which is also kind of a bummer for Eldar ships in the videogame, as they have to be micromanaged into hit-and-run attacks or else they'll stop to fire their prow weapons and fail to increase their holo-emitter strength.
[21:35:16] <Solar_Oracle> Literally making them sitting ducks, and even a lowly escort can grievously damage an Eldar cruiser if it can get in on the sweet, sweet ramming speed action
[21:37:39] <Solar_Oracle> I wish I had kept my Armada supplement PDF.
[21:38:07] <Solar_Oracle> And it wouldn't surprise me if there were rules for BFG + Epic Armageddon in some of the older magazines.
[21:38:45] <raptop> ...what does that do? Scale things up so you can take on an entire Tyranid hive fleet?
[21:39:31] <Solar_Oracle> Integrate the games together so that you could do things like provide orbital fire support or have transports landed from the BFG table on to a Epic Armageddon game as reinforcements.
[21:39:56] <Solar_Oracle> I know some tournaments incorporated the two, but I think the rules were provided by supplementary material that's long since been out of circulation.
[21:40:54] <Solar_Oracle> BFG:A had a Armageddon campaign ruleset and map, but I don't think it had rules for combined gameplay.
[21:41:44] <Solar_Oracle> Think EvE Online and Dust 514
[21:41:50] <raptop> yeah
[21:42:03] Action: raptop assumes that you'd have 10 turns on the ground for every turn in space, or something
[21:42:35] <flayer> i found dust 514 confusing
[21:42:36] <Solar_Oracle> Probably
[21:43:07] <Solar_Oracle> Battlefleet Gothic was a faster paced game in practice, though, especially since you couldn't have as many models.
[21:43:58] <Solar_Oracle> And virtually every ship in the game (including Cruisers and even Battleships) could be grouped into squadrons that shared leadership rolls.
[21:45:39] <Solar_Oracle> Squadrons also got simplified shooting phases. IE: Instead of processing, for instance, the Strength 1 shots from 4 Cobras separately, the controlling player could treat them as a single Strength 4 shot. Torpedoes could also be grouped into stronger salvos that would simplify Ordinance phase movements and rolls with a significant increase to hit.
[21:47:21] <Solar_Oracle> It's sad I'm remembering all the rules so easily long after people stopped playing BFG.
[21:55:41] <Solar_Oracle> Alright, so now it's on to something other than nostalgic melancholy. 
[21:58:19] <Solar_Oracle> After putting it off for Jebediah knows how long, it is finally time . . . Time to establish a social media presence.
[22:00:25] <Solar_Oracle> https://twitter.com/oracle_solar/status/1404559762411474945
[22:00:44] <Solar_Oracle> 15 years and I can finally Twit.
[22:03:31] <raptop> chirp chirp caw!
[22:04:47] <Solar_Oracle> I'm afraid if I was a bird it would be less a cutesy, "chirp chirp!" and more of the, "CAW CAW CAW!"
[22:05:41] <Solar_Oracle> Like this https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/383/644/6db.png
[22:07:16] <raptop> corvids are good
[22:07:34] <Solar_Oracle> Holy crap I've only been on Twitter for five minutes and some one is already stalking me!
[22:08:18] Action: raptop >_>;;
[22:09:46] <Solar_Oracle> You're just following me because you're hoping I have exoplanets in my habitable zone. Joke's on you, though, I'm a flare star!
[22:12:21] <raptop> oh no
[22:12:55] <Solar_Oracle> Hehehe, atmospheres go brrrr.
[22:13:51] <raptop> also, so much red noise
[22:14:31] <Solar_Oracle> I want more papers on desert planets and water worlds.
[22:15:56] <raptop> eg: https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.01102 ?
[22:17:15] <Solar_Oracle> Mmmm
[22:19:50] <Solar_Oracle> I really need to get cracking on the Stellaris AAR.
[22:24:52] Action: UmbralRaptop hasn't played stellaris, but assumes that as a paradox game it would lend itself to narratives 
[22:26:08] <Solar_Oracle> I'd do the even more narrative friendly Crusader Kings 2, but I totally suck at that game.
[22:26:13] <Solar_Oracle> Which, I suppose, is half the fun.
[22:26:32] <Solar_Oracle> "Oh, looks like I got ANOTHER inbred heir to lead my house in to ruin."
[22:27:19] <Solar_Oracle> Though, in this instance, I'm using a randomly created empire in a randomly created galaxy, rather than my vast assortment of pre-written empires (which, I am sad to report, have full bios that I and only I have ever read)
[22:27:45] <Solar_Oracle> My faction this time is a xenophobic, authoritarian spiritualist oligarchy.
[22:29:06] <flayer> lel
[22:32:37] <Solar_Oracle> I, unfortunately, started out with the Efficient Bureaucracy and Mining Guild civics, to soon be replaced by a dictatorship government with Exalted Priesthood and either Police State or Philosopher King.
[22:33:18] <Solar_Oracle> To be represented in the AAR as the Chief Precentor seizing power instead of assuming an end to their term in the first election.
[22:34:47] <Solar_Oracle> We cannot allow the myopic interests of the guilds and their lackies to control the Commonality's destiny.
[22:38:36] Action: UmbralRaptop pictures an attempt to paint a normal and unassuming election as an epochal struggle 
[22:40:11] <Solar_Oracle> The oligarchic elections are implied to be less open and more, "The Council of Doom has decided to re-elect Lex Luthor as leader."
[22:40:50] <Solar_Oracle> All the more appropriate given my empire is somewhat authoritarian to start out with. I like to think suffrage is restricted to those gold diggers running the mining guilds.
[22:41:36] <Solar_Oracle> The peasantry should just be thankful I don't implement chattel slavery and force them to work on the ultra-low habitability snow planet bordering the homeworld.
[22:41:57] <Solar_Oracle> And, yes, Stellaris does in fact have slave worlds used for nothing more than making more slaves.
[22:44:46] <Solar_Oracle> Although transporting pops isn't as cheap as it used to be, since now you pay precious influence.