[00:01:46] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptor' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [01:40:08] https://kerbalx.com/Jett_Quasar/MC-80-Star-Cruiser - Love this guys builds. [02:10:34] mm... so.. cabin, fuel, command/power station... which to send first? [02:42:13] hmmm.. [04:41:35] zoom zoom [05:57:31] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o tfool' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [06:41:08] Hi guys, Can I get some help with my SSTO please? It wont take off at the end of the runway and it is clearly too heavy. Would some one mind taking a look at my numbers please? [06:41:39] picture might start... could be something visually simple [06:41:58] How to take screen shot. I forgot [06:42:05] F1 [06:42:12] you on pc right? [06:42:22] What site can i use to post link .yh pc [06:42:36] you could post temporary on imgur [06:42:40] ok [06:43:06] I'd suggest deleting the post after showing it [06:43:19] why [06:43:44] if its just a one time off thing.. -shrugs [06:43:55] I don't know.. just me I guess [06:45:56] try this [06:45:59] https://imgur.com/a/CA8w3Oj [06:46:49] ignor stage 4 [06:46:56] maybe... [06:47:04] no 2 lol [06:47:12] .... wow... hows the frame rate even ;) [06:47:56] poor [06:48:27] not to mention, that's quite a lot of mass on the back... [06:48:49] I'm going to guess your mass is pretty far back, not very much leverage for your control surfaces to help with pitch [06:51:03] there are some elevons in the middle between the nervs and the centre of mass is in front of the centre of lift [06:51:37] yeah what's with CoM and CoL ? [06:51:43] whats that? [06:51:49] oh [06:51:53] i see [06:51:58] 0.72 twr is more than enough for a plane usually [06:52:09] but it is quite big for an ssto [06:52:17] why lol [06:52:19] such small cargo space... [06:52:32] just the Nervs alone you looking at 24tons at the bac [06:52:32] 1.7 twr and you won't need wings :) [06:52:54] I can not get it to 1.0 [06:53:08] it was a joke [06:53:12] I can start with 1 but then it just drops as i add more stuff [06:53:47] Im thinking there is a sweet spot with the engines and how much fuel tanks it can carry, eh? [06:54:10] depends... what sort of purpose for SSTO were you hoping for? [06:54:14] the more boosters approach doesnt work for sstos, in fact you have to do it in reverse and reduce mass [06:54:27] all solar system travel [06:54:41] then add isru [06:54:50] preferably the smaller one [06:54:50] whats that? [06:55:02] Althego, so you'd get another problem of landing that? [06:55:05] tthe drill,s ore containers and the isru unit [06:55:10] you'll need drill system.. ISRU lets you convert ore you find to fuels [06:55:33] yes, but I have interchangeable cargo bays, like Thunderbird 2 lol [06:55:59] i have that set up in another cargo bay, drills and that [06:56:14] another option is to send out fuel tankers ahead of your ship to the other locations. If you are good with docking.. [06:56:28] the set up here is for debris retreval, scott manley style [06:56:56] we dont do that here [06:57:46] maybe try for dedicated spaceship with a lander or two? All-in-ones tend to suffer a lot, unless you have some really powerful tech (usually a few mods can help) [06:58:41] I would mostly like to get an ssto for non atmosphere body landings for science [06:59:07] how do they suffer? [06:59:42] I do not really fancy taking it to planets that have atmospheres [06:59:55] execpt kerbin of course [07:00:42] ssto, single part to orbit in itself is a challenge. But then to stack having enough fuel for nearly full system tour..? [07:01:47] only really to fill the science tech gaps or even just proof of concept as I have never done one that can breach minmus [07:02:34] I have one that can get to minmus, but it did not have the isru [07:03:12] I have used a different one for debris retrieval [07:03:22] in LKO [07:03:56] but i could not get it to land with out parashutes [07:04:20] I'm not surprised... [07:04:58] as you use fuel, center of mass shifts to the back, goes behind center of lift. Things tend to go really bad when that happens [07:05:16] well it did not bring the debris down in its cargo as mk2 was too small, [07:05:28] I'd ask why small parts.. [07:05:34] what? [07:05:44] i do not have mk3 [07:07:37] what do you think I have to change in my ssto to get it to work? [07:09:04] concept? [07:09:24] what do you mean concept? [07:10:09] have you tried with half the engines you got on there currently? [07:10:32] no [07:10:50] Just me but I think for starters, you may have too much engine and weight in the back, nothing to counter balance up front [07:11:31] once you use up most of the fuel... it may seem to fly ok in space. Soon as it comes down somewhere, whole lotta troube [07:11:48] fuel tanks are up front and centre with cargo in the back [07:12:53] https://imgur.com/a/fB3ygxp [07:13:02] this one has CoM and CoL [07:14:33] aha [07:14:41] ok.. now take all the fuel out, see where it sits [07:14:57] they are so far apart that the force of control surfaces are not enough to make it lift [07:15:22] i mean, change angle of attack enough for the craft to lift of [07:15:24] * off [07:15:47] Rhys989, do you have FAR mod? [07:16:43] lol... I coudl see FAR wanting to ... well something, not good [07:16:52] & [07:16:53] ? [07:17:55] https://imgur.com/a/XRLMkcd [07:17:57] no fuel [07:18:01] Rhys989, so i think step one is to move CoM and CoL closer so that CoL is a bit behind it and spheres touching [07:18:17] yeah even without fuel it's too far [07:18:29] what is FAR mod? [07:18:34] I do not think so [07:19:03] I think some of my mods are not working properly as some visual tabs are broken [07:19:39] .... could try adding canards up front [07:20:10] there are elevons in the middle between the nervs [07:20:13] FAR is aerodynamics mod which comes with instruments to evaluate you plane's airworthyness on different speeds altitudes and planets [07:20:32] they don't work in the middle [07:20:59] why wont the elevons work in the middle? [07:21:00] they generate forces which have levers to CoM, so the closer they are to it the less torque they have [07:21:39] candards... control surfaces further forwards, more just so you have better pitch control. Careful you don't pull the center of lift too fowards [07:21:47] so they work ok for roll but less than that as elevator for pitch [07:22:52] I wanted to see if i could do one ssto without canyards as i think they look a bit tacky, except on the Typhoon, but I suppose I could do that. [07:23:42] I was thinking I might put those wing tip elevons further back on an extended wing segment [07:24:10] you know it does not really matter where you put them [07:24:27] you just turn on CoM and CoL and see what your changes do to them [07:24:44] I was thinking I might reduce some of the fuel in the front to make it lighter in hopes of getting the nose off the deck [07:24:49] and you try to bring CoL just behind the CoM so that they are almost touching [07:25:04] or redistribute tanks [07:26:03] I do not really want to redistribute tanks as they are all stuck together and that would be a big job, I was wondering if I should try for less nerv and more rapier [07:26:06] Flying wing sort of thing can be a bit of a pain to get setup right.. The Mk2 body act as lifting surfaces, can help but can also hinder in some cases as wel [07:26:42] I do not have MK 3 yet, also too chunky looking [07:27:31] What do the numbers look like? Does it matter so much that the TWR is not one on planes? [07:27:40] to think of it putting canards on front should help indeed [07:27:47] damn [07:27:54] do I have enough fuel to refill at minmus with isru? [07:28:06] with TWR>1 you don't need wings [07:28:21] ah [07:28:31] 3300 m/s DV is for rocket's ascend to orbit [07:28:45] as for to go to minmus idk, 800 m/s? [07:28:59] ”V map: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.png from topic of this channel [07:29:03] I can not seem to do it on the minimum, [07:29:03] lol.. mk1 command pod, 4.. 6 juno engines. speeding little monster [07:32:42] check out this beauty, my own design replica, actually performs well [07:32:44] https://imgur.com/a/654f9HK [07:36:44] Rhys989, so what would you do with your SSTO? [07:39:01] mmm.. well since peeps awake.. I've a little something of a side project pondering on... [07:39:10] debris collection from LKO, planet hoping throughout solar system with the exception of ones with atmosphere, filling science gaps in tech tree, it has interchangable cargo bays for different missions [07:39:39] i mean, it can't even lift off [07:39:40] refuelling with isru [07:39:46] so far [07:40:04] well, it is a work in progress [07:40:32] is it worth establishing a refueling stop on kerbin for long range trips? [07:40:39] well plane wise that is [07:40:41] i already have one that does work, but its range is pants and reentry is suicidal [07:40:50] i just have a feeling that when you manage to lift it it will lift its nose but won't lift from the runway [07:41:06] JVFoxy, i think no [07:41:25] no i mean refueling on minmus, also refueling on kerbin for surface samples [07:41:44] I have done that before lol [07:42:13] refueling station on another body.. I get, but ... wanted a way to work up to it first. See what works. [07:43:20] I have done refueler in LKO before but it sort of defies purpose as I have to send ships up to refuel the refuler [07:43:31] hehe [07:44:01] heh [07:44:10] also my small SSTO https://imgur.com/a/QFJxlTk [07:44:24] it works with FAR but it's from a bit older version [07:44:39] also could land only on flat terrain lol [07:44:41] yh I am looking at a small ssto right now from Matt Lowne [07:45:10] i made mine for looks really [07:45:38] mm.... my penguin is semi SSTO... needs a set of liquid boosters to help get off the runway.. then flying for a bit. [07:46:56] I haven't pulled out my Dynafly for a while.. its one of the few proper SSTO's I've made that was successful. Usually somewhat small sorta thing. [07:47:53] Then there is my hornet... similar in design to the f-18 but ... massivly on steriods [07:48:06] Smaller is better for simplicity sake but it is difficult to get the range [07:48:42] my dynafly has only a 1t cargo capacity to LKO.. figured all I needed anyways, it already uses the MK3 cockpit [07:48:58] I made a successful SR71 replica, I want to do the tomcat next, or a full size SR71 [07:52:21] both from old version KSP, first one is my Dynafly, or at least a version of it. Second is the Hornet: https://imgur.com/a/vUPXe7w [07:53:05] KSP went through a few changes since I made the Dynafly, so I had to revise the design a number of times then took a break from it since. :\ [07:53:47] looks cute [07:54:52] https://i.imgur.com/Q3Eb6L0.jpg [07:55:23] rickety old crate lol [07:55:55] looks dangerous [07:56:14] yes https://i.imgur.com/irEP6N8.png [07:56:38] that just gave me an idea, I wonder if I can replicate the U2 [07:57:24] I meant dangerous for the kerbals that fly it, they look exposed [07:58:34] lol [07:58:39] 'Penguin' https://imgur.com/a/BcNprUp [07:58:59] but they have to watch the outside somehow [07:59:22] why do you call it the Penguin ? [07:59:25] penguin indeed [07:59:31] because it looks like one [08:00:11] it originally started as the body, and first stubby wings, just to see if body lift would even get it off the ground [08:00:20] this one is the best plane that i made lol https://i.imgur.com/tvQHpIs.jpg [08:00:43] slightly larger wings, control surfaces, it actually flew... jet engines. Then stupid idea to make it orbit capable. [08:02:47] The latest version of my Dakota SSTO... named after my pickup truck :) https://imgur.com/a/oOsqeAb [08:03:51] no this is the best plane i made https://i.imgur.com/HhtFcb8.jpg [08:06:01] so if you have a spare asteroid which you can move around KSC you can harvest science from it https://i.imgur.com/z16xuF6.png [08:09:22] I've made a few really nice flying planes myself... quite a few of the faster ones seem to end up looking like versions of the learjet [08:09:31] how did you pick up the asteroid? [08:09:36] magic [08:09:43] the Klaw plus long landing legs [08:09:44] I did one based off the BAE regional 4 engine passenger plane [08:10:18] wait... [08:10:28] i moved the craft to the asteroid then retracted legs so that the klaw grabbed it [08:10:31] I like the imaginative conversion use of the cargo bay in this one https://i.imgur.com/tvQHpIs.jpg [08:10:32] surface sample.. instead you just brought the whole astroid over instead? [08:11:01] JVFoxy, the trick is to take samples all over KSC small 'biomes" - there are like a dozen of those [08:11:15] and each sample is counted as new one [08:11:59] yh I am going to build a better SR71 for that on my KSP [08:12:05] Rhys989, which one? one is ramp the other is door (for pilot) and also there is one more for the gunner in tail plus bomb bay :) [08:12:13] for the surface samples [08:12:18] I meant... surface sample from astroid.. instead just bring the whole stupid astroid to KSC, then recover it... didn't even know that was a thing you could do [08:12:29] you don't recover it [08:12:36] I like the one for the pilot at the front [08:12:42] you recover the sample from kerbal who takes it [08:13:02] the asteroid stays in KSC - though you can recover it [08:13:19] huh.. then.. whats this? astronautcomplex_potatoroid####### [08:13:51] name of the "place" from which the sample was taken [08:14:08] asteroid-being-in-astronaut-complex-biome [08:14:10] I saw a YouTube video of a surface retrieval of an asteroid from space, I think it was Scott Manley [08:14:12] you can see two of them [08:14:22] lol.. ok so you basically taking astroid around on a tour, picking samples off it as it goes around? [08:14:26] yes [08:14:40] also i forgot to mine it then so it's like 4 t [08:14:41] sounds a little.. game breaking but eh :P [08:14:44] What? In different biomes? [08:14:47] yes [08:14:54] that's what i was testing [08:14:58] I've yet to visit an astroid myself [08:15:00] it works [08:15:04] do that [08:15:17] okay, I am going back to KSP, ty guys [08:15:20] also look at this https://i.imgur.com/4aFvnVV.jpg [08:15:46] just getting somethin designed, then getting out there, redirecting it..... my brain would explode, seem to have more fun with planes. Ya.. I"m stupid [08:16:00] heh [08:16:26] thats quite a termite problem youv'e got there [08:16:26] i had to guess the height of that asteroid lying like 20 km from KSC cause it landed it there [08:16:31] to design the plane [08:16:42] nod.. [08:16:59] here I wanna do a 'build a base' on the north and south pole using modules and stock parts. [08:17:08] I've a few plane ideas and a fueler plane [08:17:23] and that last thing is basically money mining - you get that thing, roll it near KSC and mine then recover and you get extra money from what you mined [08:17:40] tanks are empty at the beginning of course [08:18:13] lol.. later something lands on runway, runway eats it, tradeoffs. [08:18:29] I know wouldn't happen, but jsut be funny [08:19:19] I built and tested a robotic ore carrier for mun... but never got to make use of it when ksp kept getting massic updates [08:19:39] but anyways [08:20:50] hm [08:21:16] also i tried to make an aircraft carrier but it did not go past small "runway" testing - too many parts [08:22:23] reentry https://i.imgur.com/v2XhNG7.jpg [08:28:58] yh, it was the canyards that it needed, i wanted to see if i could get it to work without canyards though [08:28:58] uh.. loading old ksp version.. fire spitter on it, firing up in my secondary screen for some reason [08:29:21] whoa.. [08:44:06] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o purpletarget|zzzz' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [08:45:24] RIP magic boulder [08:55:03] F [09:08:23] suicidal plane - looks like one of those i have in my career save has wheels which can be retracted but then can't be put out as it retracts into another part and becomes "stowed" [09:08:33] and it's fron one [09:08:39] one-way plane lol [09:21:33] ugh.. ok looks like was an issue with old version not fixing its own settings. Had to go in manually :\ [09:22:40] was loading an older version ksp.. it insisted it would show up on my alt screen.. any attempts to move to my main, it would puke at me and not give proper resolution :\ [09:24:54] digging up an old heli I built a while back in Firespitter [09:56:37] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o TheKosmonaut' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [10:33:43] yo [10:34:16] five second rule... [10:45:21] hehe [16:22:23] was there amy study on whether the bot autoreply actially helps these "guests" stay longer? [16:22:31] *any [16:23:20] probably not [16:23:45] peoples that stay actually need stuff and have more than 5 seconds to spare [16:24:38] hehe [16:39:47] https://store.steampowered.com/app/870200/SimpleRockets_2/ - KSP is FINALLY going to have competition it looks like. [16:40:55] doesn't look as fancy, they still have a long way to go [16:44:36] wasn't it ... simple planes... or simple rockets that came out a while back? [16:44:53] Action: JVFoxy looks at steam thing.. "oh... version 2 now [16:44:56] No linux no like [16:46:20] wonder if it'll be full scale to start [17:01:37] .... keyboard that has windows keys but buttons are 'ugh'... or keyboard without windows key, not exactly perfect but feels better to the touch. ... [17:34:08] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [17:47:57] JVFoxy: I remember removing the windows key from several keyboards when doing nes emus, because the default binding was ctrl+alt for keys [17:48:06] and hitting windows key in a dos based fullscreen application was.. bad idea. [17:48:21] like, 30% chance of crashing the emu bad. [17:58:06] doh [17:58:43] annddd I remember why I stopped playing KSP the last time... [17:59:03] I have other keyboards just in storage.. finding the one that works right.. clicks right.. so on.. [17:59:06] the low FPS, the bugs. the bugs. the crashing. the insanely long load time when starting the game due to just a few mods installed... [17:59:19] And the fact that none of the mods quite work togethor -_- [17:59:54] Neither kerbalism or TAC work with KSPi nuclear engines... and both seem to have random problems with randomly killing everyone for no good reason especially at high timewarp [18:00:03] BlackMoon friend sent me a ship to test.. as well as a list of mod's. Loading .... its a wonder why I don't use mods a lot. Mind you, also talking 32 bit game days [18:00:26] mind you.. having 34 mods for one ship to test... egh.. [18:00:46] lol. [18:01:08] I just wanted some nuclear reactors.. beamed power.. life support... etc.. but none of it works properly lol. [18:01:33] and none of the modders are paid, so bitching at them to fix shit is a little *shrugs* [18:02:20] Havent even really touched whatever features the (for me, free) DLC thingy added. [18:02:35] Action: UmbralRaptop fines BlackMoon 1 credit for violating the verbal morality statue [18:03:00] BlackMoon: I just use smaller mods [18:03:20] BlackMoon: I'd suggest trying out a few missions, but they can be hit or miss [18:03:40] opps sorry. [18:04:07] oren: Procedural parts is amazing at reducing mod count for sure... really should be stock [18:04:15] mucking about with all those different fuel tanks, meh. [18:04:35] are some mods I would like to put in.... something like docking alignment indicator, well since I already dock on a regular basis without. Maybe if I need that extra precision? [18:04:42] It was kinda cute when KSP ships could easily break apart anywhere but that tendency just makes the CPU load unmanageable after 200 parts. [18:04:55] not sure I'd wanna put in anything that would dramatically change the game overall.. [18:04:58] JVFoxy: I totally cheat for docking -_- [18:05:14] mechjeb smartass, point at target [18:05:28] control from docking port, set target to other ships docking port [18:05:45] switch ships and do the same. now just align your forward direction to target and wait. [18:05:46] I've had previous experience... good ol' spacesim [18:05:50] stock procedural parts of some sort (maybe snap to fixed tank heights?) would be e [18:06:19] when I dock.. I don't even move the other ship.. [18:06:22] seriously, it autoaligns both ships to be perfect for docking, you don't even get that annoying magnet twist/flingoff. [18:06:49] I've docked without RCS... or mechjeb... [18:06:52] all I do is control X/Y/Z direction [18:06:59] my very *first* docking was without RCS. [18:07:14] admitly, it was a very small ship constructed just for docking :P [18:07:18] long as the ship is small enough, you can rotate reasonably fast.. [18:07:25] Yea exactly. [18:07:56] these days I use mechjeb a lot because meh, Iv got an entire space station to build or 20 ships to move back and forth from minmus.. [18:08:40] Id love to build an actual station around duna and/or on duna and do IRSU stuff [18:09:02] but the life support mods all dying from high timewarp, and not recongizing the KSPi nuclear reactors power just bloody sucks [18:09:21] I mostly just need DV... though I kind of do it the long hard way around.. website I found, gives vehicle DV.. [18:09:44] Not to mention the KSPi nuclear reactors have very weird overheat mechanism [18:09:59] where your amount of heat 'storage' increases massively in timewarp (And so does your current heat level) [18:10:11] meaning that in timewarp, you effectively are still at real time heating/cooling rates [18:10:43] so you are left with using 1x timewarp for 30+ minutes to cool your reactor off... [18:11:05] and thrusting or using it at 4x phys warp, or using it to generate power at 10,000x timewarp, heats it up way less. [18:12:18] I was going to put something of a 'shack' in orbit around the mun.. then new ksp version came out.. [18:15:01] Yea.. kerbalism greenhouses are kinda wut too. 7 years worth of food weight to have 2 greenhouses to supply 1 kerbal. [18:15:31] scott [18:15:50] not including the fact that in stock kerbalism they only live for like, 10 years with max shielding anyway, and that you need ammonia, CO2, water and tons of energy for them.. [18:16:04] I thought about lifesupport mod... but the time warp seems to be something of a sticking issue [18:16:20] Yea, I thought about it and realized it was actually pretty easy to fix too [18:16:45] you just need to take the time since last update, and figure out what points in your orbit you cross from light to dark [18:17:03] then do the update in steps, every time you cross the light/dark lines [18:17:44] Slows things down sure, but slow is way better then 'opps you timewarped too fast so all your kerbals died for no other reason' [18:17:58] I don't even think you can tell mechjeb to not use fastest timewarps.. [18:20:33] time warped through a planet... [18:20:53] orbit was low enough, it would have just hit.. but warped so fast, it flew through, before it coudl slow down fast enough [18:21:20] meh.. warping.. Just hit jool hard enough, it'll bounce you back at 5c [18:22:04] and he went to the alamida base, where lot of mythbusters testing happened [18:22:24] he already was in a tested video. maybe in the future he meets with adam too [18:25:51] JVFoxy: Yea I especially hate warping past PE [18:25:55] alamida is on Treasure Island right? [18:26:18] how hard is it to do a simple check on if you passed PE or not during timewarp, especially if PE is below atmosphere? [18:26:47] never mind. same bay, different body of land [18:29:39] Still tempted to write a new KSP, mainly for built in working life support+nuclear reactors.. and space stations that don't lag the game to absolute . [18:30:27] Biggest change I think would be making entire stages 1 physics object, so they are 100% rigid (like kerbal joint reinforcement) [18:31:34] Basically, your 200+ part 7 stage ships would run like a 10 part ship runs. (since some stages would be radial) [18:32:35] isn't that the concept behind the UbioZur Welding mod? [18:32:48] make a large group of parts into a single, rigid part? [18:32:52] guessing the flexibility between parts is some part of the code they had for a while? [18:33:23] ya but the weld mod has a few limitations [18:33:51] like you have to restart the game to load your welded parts [18:33:53] overall though, its works really well, if you know what to do [18:34:00] and since KSP takes ages to load it's a bummer... [18:34:14] eh.. stock game loading isn't too bad... [18:34:38] heh, but if you have like 50 mods... [18:35:16] Or just.. 1 or 2 big mods.. [18:35:24] or any mods that add cockpits that seem to all be 50megs each... [18:35:40] because gotta have that IVA... loaded at start of the game... [18:35:48] I've a feeling they changed how IVA s are dealt with [18:36:09] nevermind that loading a craft takes longer then most 40gig games load 5gigs of assets and a normal game could load those IVA's when a craft loads.. [18:36:29] I mod'd a cockpit, mostly rearranged a few props, but as a different cockpit part. After one of the version changes, all I got was blank interiors [18:36:44] lol. [18:37:05] trying to figure out the rotation system was a nightmare for props [18:37:33] using a 4 axis system [20:24:18] https://youtu.be/pYvUtvtYVCc [22:15:48] https://i.imgur.com/gzkmC4l.gifv Ompf [22:25:59] brilliant :P [22:31:34] small update to my GPU problem, i swapped out the PSU, and at least it survived booting :p [22:32:49] and then? [22:32:59] also yes, PSU's are a very common failure point. [22:33:24] then? then is right now. [22:34:03] the other PSU is probably same age, but is listed as 100W more [22:34:37] but it has fewer connectors, so i couldn't connect my second case fan, and my DVD drive [22:35:24] i guess i'll just try running a game [22:38:58] off to take a trip to the old KSC site for the first time... [22:44:55] mmm.. supersonic excutive jets shaped like learjets :P [23:08:44] welp.. coming up to Baiker [23:09:10] sun is up but mountains making things pretty dark.. doh [23:18:37] and no runway... 'of course'.. [23:20:46] umm... Baiker is its own biome now? [23:20:59] well .. if I knew that before hand.. geez