[00:50:42] Last message repeated 1 time(s). [00:50:42] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o APlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [00:58:36] wait....wasnt this a no swearing channel cuz kids ....language! :P [00:59:17] Action: xShadowx|2 is aware the bear he poked has a big hammer [01:01:11] Action: RyanKnack beats mr_flea with a brick [01:01:44] .....no clue who you are, but nice knowing you? o.O [01:01:48] Action: RyanKnack locks mr_flea in the dungeon with the other spam bots [01:02:04] I'm not afraid [01:02:26] ohhh another op didnt notice sorry :P [01:02:36] sorry :( [01:02:42] freaking spambots! [01:02:51] lol :) [01:03:13] if only you could accually force clients to join a chan [01:03:23] then throw him in #bottorture [01:03:31] XD [01:03:36] I think they're actually manually spamming, or it's partially manually-operated [01:03:39] not sure [01:04:14] maybe xShadowx|2 meant that I should put you in some torturous channel [01:04:42] I suppose any channel that I'm in with you counts [01:04:48] ^ because of the longing in a dungeon with spambots [01:04:53] RyanKnack, the ultimate torture [01:04:54] o.O [01:05:06] Action: xShadowx|2 backs away slowly [01:05:28] anyways <3 love your work on keeping the streets clean! [01:05:41] Topic for #bottorture: Enhanced Bot Interrogation Techniques [01:05:50] :D [01:05:50] Yes, we keep mr_flea on the side walk [01:06:25] Rather, chained in the dungeon. [01:06:56] i cant wait til tech catches up to scifi, and people can interface with computers with a port on their neck [01:07:11] Noooo [01:07:16] yes :D [01:07:39] also want a tv chip behind the eye [01:07:58] xShadowx|2's future: cyborg [01:08:04] :) [01:08:39] not so much full cyborg, but minor enhancing stuff [01:08:49] xShadowx|2: So if your heart gets end of life'd a few months into a multiyear contract& [01:09:12] o.O [01:10:14] The previous line implicitly references the first (and last) phone I got with VZW. [01:19:18] there was a guy recently that got denied a phone contract, because he was diagnosed with cancer and had less than 2 years (estimated) left to live [01:26:36] dang it, where is flub [01:37:27] bring me the frenchman [01:41:04] Eddi|zuHause: thats just sound business, its not a charity. how did they KNOW is the question [01:46:55] i think it was a celebrity-ish person (which is also why this bubbled into the news, probably) [01:49:36] hm... my VAB got into some invalid state thinking parts were connected which weren't, and then crashed... [01:50:31] it also didn't save when i told it to save (probably because it was already in invalid state) [02:07:39] uhm... it did it again :/ [02:08:30] I wonder if it's easily reproducible? [02:27:08] not really [02:28:25] blarg [02:28:39] it might involve legacy parts and stuff [02:32:16] on a separate note, i have a lander i want to connect to the head of my main ship, to have it behind the main ship's heat shield on reentry. but i also want to recover a part with a claw... can't have both i suppose... [03:25:55] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o APlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [10:06:50] https://i.redd.it/xb5lh7jdkus11.jpg [10:10:00] :) [10:10:48] http://bksys.at/bernhard/img/vienna%2Dnuke.png [10:15:03] Althego, is that peloponnes channel? [10:18:13] seems so - olympia highway [10:27:14] i dont know, it was just a link [10:28:02] found it already [10:29:55] Ok, so at least pilots are preferred and I'm not getting Bill by default now that Jeb is in a 4 billion years solar orbit. [10:32:28] jeb will return [10:32:30] Sometimes KSP snaps into a mode where it renders faster. Is there a way to force that? [10:32:45] How's he gonna do that? [10:32:57] magic [10:33:01] ok [10:33:39] I could set his orbit to LKO. [10:33:45] That's kinda magical. [10:34:30] leave atmosphere :) [10:36:11] Althego: It also affects the speed at which days in KSC pass at 100,000x warp. [10:37:21] Also the rendering speed in the atmosphere varies. [10:38:20] I could try quitting firefox or so. [13:43:48] the Frenchman still isnt here, darn [14:19:18] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [14:24:10] Rokker: which French man [14:24:39] flub [14:24:48] Rokker: apparently Im channel founder now [14:24:53] UNLIMITED [14:24:55] POWER [14:25:20] crash this into the ground [14:25:38] Its not even a smoldering crater anymore [14:25:43] I remember the golden era [14:26:57] The rise and fall of many titans of modding, the periodic clashing of the communities from forum and here, the great exodus [14:27:14] All lost... like tears in rain [14:27:30] Time to die [14:34:39] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Judge_Dedd' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [14:53:03] Do androids dream of unicorns? [15:44:50] i hate it when the game says i have a mun flyby PE of X, but when i get there, it is actually Y [15:45:07] especially if X is positive and Y is negative [16:01:45] hehe [16:01:53] orbits are much calmer than they used to be [16:01:57] after taniwha worked on them [16:02:06] you could change your orbit just by rotating [16:14:37] nathankell did most of that [16:15:08] I redid the underlying keplerian math making it more accurate [16:15:33] but he did the hard part of using the keplerian math to do the "integration" [16:57:29] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [16:58:20] Mat2ch you remember the horse with no hair? [16:58:24] I have better https://66.media.tumblr.com/cc6d5930059b2b896c6079e07c16236a/tumblr_nuavixI4yL1undh1wo1_540.jpg [17:02:31] https://66.media.tumblr.com/0cdbf48b5f597410bc44346c5bba9549/tumblr_inline_pgitlipYXa1sce1rh_640.jpg [17:02:31] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o APlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [17:07:01] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o BPlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [17:09:49] elvis lives?! [17:10:31] that last picture is photoshopped... [17:10:44] mime cat? [17:10:46] i can tell because there's no way the cat has that text tattooed on its legs :p [17:10:53] no, it is pressing against a window [17:11:12] ah i didnt see the elvis horse [17:31:48] great, my mun orbit conveniently misses every single of the "measure temperature" spots [17:32:48] Fluburtur: where do you find this stuff? :D [17:33:06] tumblr, apparently [17:56:56] hehe scott and 1 bit graphics [17:57:08] also new annoying yt feature (all of these are always annoying) [17:57:31] which is now the viewing screen rescales with the window, so you can never tell when you are in a native resolution [17:58:02] and this, and the compression interferes with the 1 bit graphics [17:58:35] uhm weird, i have the screwdriver, but it says i need a tool to attach the part [18:00:08] Did you equip it in the correct hand? [18:00:28] i can click "equip" but that doesn't seem to change anything [18:00:34] Also, there is a key for the screwdriver, IIRC [18:08:27] must be a bug... i switched to different engineer, now equipping works [18:35:58] i can never figure out which direction i need to navigate using RCS :/ [18:37:13] using rcs is unrelated to the problem of nvaigation [18:47:10] so given this orientation, which button of hnjlik do i have to press to move towards the target? https://ibin.co/4JYCRFgIWNm8.png [18:47:47] trick is, never look at the spaceship, always look at the navball [18:48:06] yes [18:48:25] but i don't see the prograde marker :/ [18:48:37] you are almost at rest [18:48:53] that's not really the point [18:48:56] yowhy would oyu want to see a shaking marker [18:49:06] there's no prograde if you're at relative rest [18:49:53] the point is that even if i'm moving towards the target, the prograde marker would be near the edge of the navball, and i cannot rotate the navball without changing my orientation [18:49:58] That's the target's orientation, not the target marker [18:50:12] and i need this orientation for the docking port to align [18:50:24] Align later, get close first [18:50:33] Lock your camera view [18:50:51] use more words? [18:51:39] i already was closer once, about 4m [18:51:45] but then things went... wrong [18:52:01] Align your ports later, get in viewing range first. Use locked camera mode to align your camera with your vessel so that w is up and d is right [18:52:33] use control from here? [18:52:40] 26m is not viewing range? [18:52:42] they it is always prograde vs target [18:52:52] then [18:53:06] and this problem disappears [18:53:26] that would be possible, if i could align the docking port of the other ship [18:53:41] so both point toward each other, which i cannot here... [18:54:29] for that there is a mod, but it turns out there are only rare siutation when i cant move the target ship, so it is always just prograde or retrograde vs the other prograde or retrograde [18:54:45] so for the rare cases i can move to the approximate position myself [18:54:58] well, i have the docking port alignment mod (that's the red spot in the center of the navball) [18:55:07] yes i noticed [18:55:38] for a while i tried to keep it updated but it was around useless (it worked but never needed), so i stopped used it [18:55:56] but now i must move the target marker to the center [18:56:05] and all buttons i press are the wrong ones [18:56:47] look at the target, move to the side where the docking port is using the forward and backward only [18:57:13] then just move towards the target correcting the sideways error [19:00:20] i think what i'm missing is a freeform navball orientation [19:00:33] instead of "control from here" [19:00:33] dont need it [19:00:44] the alignment indicator is for final approach only [19:01:07] this is the final approach... turning around is way too slow [19:01:15] it is not [19:01:20] it is [19:01:28] because if you were in the correct spot, the indicators would overlap [19:01:58] i don't think you understand the problem i'm trying to solve... [19:02:14] seems to be artificial [19:05:25] what i wanted is a view of the navball where i can see both prograde and target marker, to get to this state: https://ibin.co/4JYHwVRusBz4.png [19:08:55] you are conveniently ignoring that red indicator [19:09:24] on final approach when all indicators converge [19:09:29] unless something is really broken [19:09:48] i "ignore" the red indicator because that is already at the right place [19:09:57] then it is lying [19:10:04] there is a solution to this problem without changing the red indicator [19:10:32] now you are pointing somewhere next to the target, but moving towards it sideways [19:10:35] you never want to do that [19:10:41] sompeltely pointless [19:12:39] well, from this point i can hit "backwards", to cancel out that part of the vector end up at this state: https://ibin.co/4JYK5p6rvXZZ.png [19:13:26] but again, i can only do that because both prograde and target marker are visible in the navball [19:13:27] i think you are making this more complicated than it should be [19:13:45] you can make the prograde marker visible if it is not [19:13:48] no, i'm trying to avoid needless rotations [19:14:05] translation is not rotation [19:15:23] yes [19:15:27] i mean you just activate the rcs translation and move the prograde marken in view [19:17:27] and i mean the navball area is too small for that [19:17:34] it isnt [19:17:39] never had that problem [19:17:43] because there was a (non-flickering) prograde marker, but it wasn't visible [19:17:51] because you are making it harder than it is [19:18:03] then you just move it into view [19:18:24] then i slap you in the face, because otherwise we're just moving in circles? [19:18:27] add forward throst, it is in view, change with the 4 remainign directions so it points towards you goal [19:19:29] the problem is: this distance is too small for that kind of "randomly hit buttons until it's right" experiments [19:19:40] then you dont need to see it anyway [19:20:00] no, i do. [19:20:06] that is the entire point [19:20:16] if i SEE the prograde marker, i can move it correctly. [19:20:41] if it is there (which it was) and i don't SEE it, it is a "wrong interface" problem [19:21:00] it doesnt appear if you are too slow [19:21:09] but then it is basically indicating zero [19:21:13] i keep telling you, i was not too slow [19:21:43] how is it that after like hundreds of dockings, i never had this problem? [19:21:56] that is why i say you are making it harder than it actually is [19:22:08] because you always docked with aligning both ships [19:22:12] you said so [19:22:14] no [19:22:19] i just do that most of the time [19:22:34] still doesnt change the fact when you are docking all indicators should converge [19:22:38] if they dont, you are not docking [19:22:55] you still don't get it? [19:23:02] no, i dont [19:23:09] obviously [19:23:43] so how are you docking while you are not moving towards the target? please enlighten me [19:25:48] look again at the 3 steps i did: 1) make heading and alignment marker overlap: https://ibin.co/4JYCRFgIWNm8.png 2) make prograde and target overlap: https://ibin.co/4JYHwVRusBz4.png 3) make target and alignment overlap: https://ibin.co/4JYK5p6rvXZZ.png [19:26:13] (not shown here: 4) make prograde and target overlap again) [19:27:00] the question was not how to approach. the question was how to find the right buttons that do this approach [19:27:44] rcs controls are basically on the navball. if you want top right from the center press forward and top right [19:29:34] and again, move in front of the port, rotate towards target, move forward and left and right, there is never need for this kind of approach [19:30:15] there is, if i have a bulky ship that is difficult to rotate [19:30:23] and the other ship cannot do maneuvers [19:30:50] there is a reason why ships dock to the station and not stations to the ship :) [19:31:50] my point is, this approach totally works. but the game makes it too hard to figure out the correct buttons [19:33:14] let's just say, i have more issues when i try to move towards or away from a terrain feature, because you are in your own north east coordinate system and you cant see that in the camera [19:33:46] and you cant target terrain the way you can do with ships, so that the indicator and the controls are in the same coordinate system [19:33:55] thsi is a far bigger issue, and happens all the time [19:34:20] in any other game with the directional controls you could be moving towards a target easily [19:34:25] set a waypoint? [19:34:34] you are landing [19:34:38] want to avoid a slope [19:34:45] 20 seconds remaining [19:34:56] in any normal game you would just say left or something [19:35:18] landing as in plane, or as in rocket? [19:35:21] rocket [19:35:44] your nose is top [19:35:55] now which way your left is in the picture? [19:36:15] oh yeah [19:36:27] there is absolutely no way to see this [19:36:30] unless you try it [19:36:50] but that is kind of a similar "which of hnjkil to press?" issue [19:37:12] no, because in your case you have all your indicators on the navball, and all your controls are also on the navball [19:37:22] while in my case there is no indicator on the navball, just on the screen [19:37:34] but camera is rotated away, unrelated to the navball [19:37:45] and you dont know the transformation between the two [19:37:57] maybe a camerqa indicator on the navball would help [19:38:17] or a compass on the picture [19:38:22] but that would look ugly [19:38:28] it doesn't help that things on the navball habitually are "the wrong way around" [19:39:42] doesnt matter, because as i said in your case it is obviousl that the up-down-left-right indicators move the prograde around the navball, forward pulls it towards the center, backward pushes it away from it [19:40:15] (or in retrograde, the reverse) [19:41:32] also, i needed to flip around either jl or ik to make it move more like my intuition wanted it, but i think i flipped the wrong one, now both are the wrong way :p [19:41:57] yes, why do you think i switch up-down all the time? [19:42:02] did that on the first day [19:42:06] and i can't flip it back ingame [19:42:11] because i realized default controls are idiotic [19:42:12] so next time i forget again [19:42:21] up should be the key in the upper row and not in the bottom row [19:42:43] it's like that scene in independence day :p [19:42:55] before that i couldnt steer anything, ebcause left-right had reversed functionality on the navball than up-down [19:42:59] yes [19:43:34] so i swapped up and down in all controls where it needed to be done, and it has been years ever since, and have no such issues [19:43:57] it is supposedly because historically because some idiotic reason airplane simulators used the up key as down [19:44:14] now for me, up should be up and not down [19:44:46] and if you think of the navball, the directions are really reversed compared to left and right. so if they also swapped left and right i woudl eb ok, but not with only on [19:44:48] e [19:48:03] the "up is down" thing was always weird to me as well... that originated from using joysticks like an airplane would work (pull=up), but it totally makes no sense with keyboard and mouse [19:48:17] exactly [19:48:25] once you correct that everything is a lot easier [19:49:21] i think apple pushed the same kind of stuff with its touchpad, where you had to move your finger up to scroll down [19:49:47] really confusing [19:49:50] that one depends on how person views things Althego [19:50:03] it could be basically "pushing" paper upwards [19:50:08] there is no paper [19:50:13] I know [19:50:24] it is the same silly notion as with web designers who insists that webpages have a fixed width [20:00:45] yeah, i recently stumbled over apple scroll wheel being opposite direction [20:01:09] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/336533573781684244/502571846873645058/DSC_8803.JPG [20:01:20] there it can be ideologized somewhat, because of this pushing the paper. but i always pulled the scroll thing, so it is reverse for me [20:01:31] on a touchscreen the direction is obvious [20:01:35] and intuitive [20:01:38] not on a toucpad [20:01:45] but they just made the two the same [20:01:56] must be jupiter [20:02:38] heh, too bad they dont show this during the live docking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlGhxEUjs_k [20:02:39] YouTube - As� se acopla la nave espacial Soyuz a la Estaci�n Espacial Internacional [20:03:16] it is like the curiosity landing videos from the mars descent images (mardi) camera, i only learned the existence of that some 1-2 years after the landing [20:03:32] strange, why is it spanish for kmath [20:03:50] oh that is the tab title [20:05:25] best telescope rig https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/336533573781684244/502572092420784149/IMG_20180416_235744.jpg [20:05:42] it is wonky, hard to aim and vibrates all the time [20:05:56] vibrates? [20:06:09] even if you dont touch it for a w hile? [20:06:16] must be breathing :) [20:06:20] yeah takes a good 10 seconds to stop moving [20:06:28] good thing I have a remote for my camera [20:06:31] that is probably normal, it is fairly light [20:06:57] my friend should get a good newtonian one at the end of the year [20:07:06] this will be taking amazing pictures [20:07:37] could you set it up so that you see the clouds of jupiter? [20:07:49] the moons are faint dots anyway [20:08:14] probably [20:08:35] but because the camera is directly attached to the telescope there is no eyepiece to add magnification [20:08:49] so it has a fixed level of zoom unless I decide to study optics [20:09:23] yes, but you can decrease the brightness of jupiter a bit so it doesnt appear as a smudged star [20:09:41] well with better optics than the crappy one I have yeah [20:09:49] but we have bad sky here as well [20:10:35] not as bad as for me. most of the time night sky is quite bright red [20:11:01] next time I go to our mountain house im taking my craposcope [20:11:07] can see the planets and some bright stars [20:11:15] lol craposcope [20:11:15] can see the mikly way in a few minutes just outside the door [20:11:20] can't see it here [20:11:26] unless you literally want to watch that with it... [20:11:39] hehe [20:11:44] i have never seen it [20:11:52] tried to during transatlantic flights [20:11:59] that's really sad [20:11:59] but there was too much light in the cabin [20:12:17] seeing the sky filled with so many lights is really beautiful [20:12:29] well you know what you have to do now, I will be telling you next time I go there [20:12:44] to see i i would need to buy a car, drive out in the middle of nowhere, probably in the cold, because night are cold, watch it, then drive back [20:13:22] and survive it without being mugged [20:13:30] lmao [20:16:05] now if i add an expensive telescope, that may cost the fraction of the car, but more sensitive [20:16:15] that is worse [20:17:42] good binos! [20:26:59] i should sleep. even if i dont go in tomorrow, i eed to work a few hours [20:30:44] i really miss [x] Science!... [20:31:04] whenever i pass over a new biome, i miss the new science :/ [20:31:10] hehe [20:31:19] yes i actually dont like that part of the game [20:31:41] when in early career you are stuck in a polar orbit for mapping out biomes with all the science [20:33:23] i'm in a tilted mun orbit, in the hope of catching some of those "measure temperature while in flight" targets [20:33:35] and i'm passing over some biomes i have never seen before [20:33:59] but they're always gone before i pressed the right buttons [20:34:15] i have seen all of them. many times. the problem is, while i keep juggling other missions i need to go back catching the biome, while say a crater rotates under the polar orbit [20:41:50] gah, i've hit the "can't equip screwdriver" bug again :/ [20:59:02] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o APlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [23:09:31] anyone else have this KIS bug where they can't equip anything? [23:13:31] oh, forum thinks it's a sexism issue [23:15:30] it works with males and doesn't with females [23:28:34] Sons and daughters of Kerbin: Extinction is not an option . . . Oh, wait, of course it is! [23:33:08] Oh dear . . . "The shuttles were designed to be launched from the $3B, EMP-hardened vandenburg AF site (never used), and to launch spysats and potential weapons with short prep time." [23:33:22] "short prep time". [23:33:53] Extinction is not an option, we will invest many kerbalyears of development time to make extinction a CERTAINTY! [23:34:17] Action: Scolar_Visari prepares for EXTERMINATUS [23:35:21] Scolar_Visari: well, the quote is *technically* correct& [23:36:32] Said person has been on record as saying that a shuttle launch is as easy as an ICBM launch. [23:36:57] They also never provided any evidence for Vandenburg's orbital launch facilities and associated equipment as being EMP hardened. [23:37:22] Wait, do they not mean SLC-6? [23:38:51] They probably wanted to refer to that. [23:40:05] Also: "NASA is, was, and always has been, a military agency. Recon is a military op." [23:40:47] Action: UmbralRaptop headdesks [23:41:32] They're also a conspiracy theorist that believes humanity has been selectively bred over the past ~10,000 years by a shadowy by supposedly benevolent cabal of superiors, so I'm terribly surprised they believed DARPA and the NRO are just fronts for NASA. [23:42:08] And that's why phys.org should probably just get rid of the comments, though it'd mean one less thing to entertain me. [23:43:57] I expect lots of BadHistory, the BadScience is even worse. [23:57:12] Oh . . . Teehee. There's a paper here in which Alan Stern was a co-author that refers to Pluto et al. as dwarf planets! [23:58:14] >_> <_< [23:58:51] Stern et al. "The Pluto System After New Horizons", Annual Reviews of Astronomy and Astrophysics 2018 https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1712/1712.05669.pdf [23:59:54] Ooh, didn't realize Annual Review papers got on ArXiv.