[03:56:29] at a bit of an impass it seems. Originally I thought I'd do a stock craft sorta series. Its just, after seeing some creations with this one mod, things don't look quite as ...'messily built'. [04:11:25] yo [04:15:16] Althego: how awake are ya over there? [04:15:25] mostly [04:15:52] ah, on the upswing or down? [04:16:28] up [04:16:57] wanted to poke ya on some thoughts. Though wasn't sure how... 'hardcore' gamer you were.. [04:18:56] "tick tock, prince, tick tock" [04:19:39] have to go to the bakery soon. but i am not sure how soon. it depends on whether they handle this technical saturday as a saturday or monday [04:26:05] erm, sorry, wasn't sure if you were feeling up to talk is all. [04:27:36] i am here [04:27:44] stock vs mod'd... originally I thought I'd stay stock but, guess... sorta falling down the rabbit hole as it were [04:28:14] with the latest updates i managed to reduce my mod usage from 1 to 0 [04:28:35] although i still miss the generated torque readout of ker [04:28:56] and i used to have chatterer too, but i dropped that a long time ago [04:29:07] i just dont want the pain of managing the mods [04:29:41] almost 10 mods on one old version. half of them don't show up on CKAN in latest version of the game [04:29:56] they still work, probably [04:30:10] the updates are really minuscule lately [04:30:34] I could force but, then I'll complaints from ckan and ksc.. [04:31:00] actually ... CKAN had an update recently but it crashed on me pretty badly when it tried [04:31:58] other thing I'm noticing, I could be spending days tinkering with things, just getting it right before dropping into a proper session I feel is good enough to record [04:32:27] I'm going to guess it was mechjeb you had going previously? [04:32:34] ker [04:33:05] i always thought a game playing itself is a stupid idea [04:33:26] so i don really need a mechjeb style autopilot [04:33:47] thats... kerbal engineer redux right? ... isn't that basically mechjeb or..? I hadn't really looked into compairing the two, just heard about htem a lot [04:34:21] ker is mostly a delta v design aid for me. it can also display a lot of information in flight. but it never pilots the craft [04:35:29] i think i risk the bakery now. they usually dont care for the replacement saturdays. [04:35:38] k, all best [04:42:37] back [04:49:48] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [04:50:14] oh... [04:52:27] not so much an autopilot for getting into space for me.. its just, be nice to have a horizon lock while flying aircraft [04:53:29] yes, altitude hold would be nice [04:53:58] well that too... [04:55:18] also, given how often I end up with very slight aircraft roll/yaw despite being made pefectly mirrored. some kind of independant assist for those be nice too [04:55:46] yes, that shouldnt happen [04:55:53] not even dihedral wings help [04:56:45] its been an issue for years, though not as bad these days, what with rigid connections and autostrut. Though even those don't always fully help. I noticed autostruts also takes extra CPU too [04:57:57] given what I seen in the past, I'm half wondering if certain parts aren't mirroring like they should, certain flight dynamics either flipped or missed.. [04:59:22] didnt seem like it [04:59:39] the effect is stronger with physics warp [05:00:04] probably it is some tiny difference between the sides, that is magnified with the forces [05:02:16] ever use those tiny fuel tanks in mirrored mode? [05:02:28] yes [05:02:55] Mk0 (looked up to be sure) [05:02:58] https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Oscar-B_Fuel_Tank [05:03:43] ah.. not rocket.. more seen a particular 'issue' with the Mk0 jet fuel tank. When I turn on show dynamics, first mirrored MK0 on one side doesn't show body lift, but everything else does [05:03:54] the white ones [05:03:57] not sure if its just error with the displaying or if it actually is missing lift [05:04:33] never noticed that [05:04:56] usually body lift is too small to even have a visible arrow [05:05:24] I've pulled some g's just to test.. they'll show up a bit [05:06:26] not sure if its still an issue in current versions though. I sorta gave up checking [05:10:33] lol, nasa wants to use bacteria for space mining [05:11:25] i am still for space lasers [05:15:39] space pick [05:15:54] space backpack [05:19:36] ... space engineers ... pretty much. [05:19:51] space minecraft? :) [05:21:35] at least can build ships that move [05:23:13] minetest heh [05:23:29] world gen is far more extreme since world height is 64k [05:23:41] vs minecraft 512 [05:24:08] while randomly digging, I found a cave that was taller than minecraft world is tall [05:24:24] i didnt explore extents fully [06:05:34] minecraft is 512? i thought more like 128 [06:06:11] as in, sealevel is 64, and you can go as much below as above [06:11:49] or maybe its 256 [06:11:59] but not 128 no [06:12:15] anyway minetest is much taller world [06:12:24] and mining is really mining lol you can get insane depths [06:13:06] electron launch in less than 6 hours [06:13:11] if it happens [06:18:12] eddi im at 1 km deep now [06:18:24] and theres still 63k to go lol [06:33:41] fel over 300m [06:33:43] fell [06:33:56] good thing im creative or.. [06:34:24] from 2201 to 2524 [06:52:15] 4k now. fun lol [06:56:14] Rolf: Build-height in minecraft is 255 (256 counting sea level exactly) yeah, but I believe it's easy to change that nowadays [06:56:39] theres mod for that too., cubic chunk somethig? [06:56:52] fell long way into lava lol [06:56:59] good thing im creative [06:57:17] if I wasn't, I'd do it the slower way of building massive stairs [06:58:07] my standard mining is massive 3 wide and 4 height stairs to bedrock, 2x2 branches, and 1x2 mining rows [06:58:23] 2 touches blocking the way means "ugh there be lava" [07:33:35] oh im wrong, its not 64k deep, its 31k deep [07:33:42] makes sense [08:29:10] so, why exactly is cities skylines using 12GB ram? [09:22:59] its fun game huh? [09:35:10] probably because you have settings up high and a complicated city going? [10:07:12] electron in 2 hours [10:08:40] elec [10:08:41] eh [10:08:48] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNuauG1Gvr8 [10:08:49] YouTube - Rocket Lab 'Look Ma, No Hands' Launch [10:23:31] 15000m down lol [10:23:35] minetest is insane [11:41:53] 30 min remaining [11:53:22] stream on [11:57:41] go for launch [12:10:40] t-1 min [12:14:15] fire looks like a monster hand catching up to rocket [12:14:25] cant be unseen, forever [14:23:56] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [16:31:35] Last message repeated 1 time(s). [16:31:35] "Curiosity": http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot358.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot370.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot363.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot365.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot365.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot389.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot392.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot392.png [16:31:36] http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot421.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot421.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot421.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot440.png [16:33:44] oops, posted 365 twice [16:34:49] another. Don't click, I'll repost a clean list. [16:45:05] http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot358.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot370.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot363.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot365.png [16:45:05] http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot386.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot389.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot392.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot394.png [16:45:05] http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot421.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot400.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot409.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot440.png [16:45:47] Should have made an imgur gallery, but I just copy it to my home server. [18:24:56] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_nj6wW6Gsc [18:24:56] YouTube - Kerbal Space Program 2 Cinematic Announce Trailer [18:51:51] what, 2? [18:52:11] 2.0.0? [18:52:15] "not actual gameplay" [18:54:26] star theory and private division [18:54:29] no squad [18:54:41] this will either be great or huge fail [18:57:21] i have this fear, that the soul of the game will be lost during this development [19:01:10] I predict fail [19:05:37] in other words do I have to buy it again [19:05:56] yes [19:07:51] I can feel it already, DLC is going to be bad on that [19:10:13] when did KSP1 become "Complete Edition"? [19:11:20] So, actual caves, n-body, and/or less scattered instrumentation? [19:11:49] how about simplerockets n+1? [19:13:56] I want good extraplanetary colonization [19:17:00] I want candy [19:21:09] Only if the candy has an Isp >> 100 s [19:22:21] Also, consider stock kRPC or kOS? Hopefully [19:23:28] maybe in liquid oxygen [19:45:15] Sons and daughters of Kerbin: Does it really count as a launch failure if some of the rocket gets into space? [19:47:40] Action: Scolar_Visari ponders if Elon Musk was actually considering threat detection as part of asteroid defense or simply hasn't read any technical literature on the subject of asteroid deflection. [19:50:43] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptor' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [19:52:26] Two Raptors? I didn't believe there was any conclusive evidence of pack hunting behavior! [19:54:32] Action: UmbralRaptor pounces on Scolar_Visari [19:55:48] Clever girl [19:56:02] Action: Scolar_Visari is pinned underneath by the large talons, per the prey restraint method, and remains alive while their predator begins to eat. [19:56:34] Oh why could I have not fallen to something that would've had the chivalry to kill *then* eat me!? [19:57:21] hah [19:57:43] Action: Scolar_Visari is also puzzled as to how one would eat Scolar_Visari, as most of their biology is incompatible with that of living organisms and unrecognizable to all but the most well trained xenologists who did not go mad from their revelation. [19:58:24] There are strange physiologies that dromaeosauridae were never meant to know! [19:59:47] UmbralRaptors are a bit different from velociraptors, which helps some [20:00:07] So are you not a raptor in much the same way a photino bird is not a bird? [20:00:20] heh [20:05:00] Action: UmbralRaptor is sadly mostly getting devoured by grad school (and health?) issues these days [20:06:26] That's why you should've studied time travel! [20:06:41] hello! [20:09:11] hey [20:11:07] Action: Scolar_Visari ponders how much carriers will cost in Elite's December update. [20:27:46] lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_nj6wW6Gsc pretty cool [20:34:17] heh [20:34:51] The trailer seems to imply that abject failure will still be a large factor in the game [20:35:06] I appreciate that. [20:35:13] Imma be real honest . . . I'm absolutely sure that giving Kerbals nuclear pulse drives is a Bad idea. [20:36:19] heh [20:36:23] there is this https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/187315-kerbal-space-program-2-master-post/ [20:36:37] Are there also NSWR options? [20:37:30] There appears to be Epstein Drives, so plenty of death from too many Gs. [20:38:22] Action: Scolar_Visari did not see KSP 2 coming. This is as unexpected a development as Evil Genius 2. [20:39:10] "realistic physics" [20:39:32] Stock Principia + FAR? [20:40:41] So, if Principia than Lagrange colonies? I mean, the trailer *does* have rotating doughnuts. [20:41:42] Mmm… O'Neil doughnut… [20:42:36] Wait, what in the name of Stanford, Bernal and O'Neill . . . ? StarTopia's getting a SEQUEL!? [20:43:01] Yup [20:44:29] heh 60 usd [20:44:46] and i can just hope it will be on gog too [20:45:33] It's pretty funny that it's being made by the people who did Dungeons, as StarTopia itself was developed by Dungeon Keeper 2 devs. [20:45:43] Anyway, my fastest computer for the time being is a Linux raptop, so eh [20:46:40] eh and stilél on unity [21:00:21] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wmJlnTqjSg [21:00:21] YouTube - Kerbal Space Program 2 Developer Story Trailer [21:50:22] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [21:51:02] I see a few shots taken from the museum of flight in that dev story trailer [21:51:07] I was there a week ago [21:51:30] MUSEUM [21:52:13] what [22:01:58] pretty clear what I said [22:05:17] museum [22:05:39] precisely [22:05:40] museum [22:13:21] muesum [22:43:18] Sons and daughters of Kerbin: Live from Stellaris it's Scolar Visari! [22:46:36] Well that was weird. Perhaps I shouldn't try entering wormholes with singularity reactors in tow? [22:47:43] It's fine. Only ~7e15 kg of exotic matter got scattered around the system [22:47:59] I'm sure there will be no negative consequences whatsoever. [22:48:35] Action: Scolar_Visari begins to ponder the advantages of KSP II's inhouse engine. [22:48:40] Will it have cupholders? [22:50:27] More seriously, the non-gameplay trailer is showcasing some very parts heavy ships and bases. They would be enough on KSP I to make most computers overclock-out, send in their two week notices and apply for work as DogeCoin miners. [22:51:08] I think those are actually colonies. Sounds like the game treats them differently then ships [22:51:58] Oh no, I was thinking about the very, very, very large interplanetary and interstellar ships. [22:52:10] Including the one propelled by nuclear explosives. [22:52:42] :D [22:53:08] Action: Scolar_Visari seems to recall there is at least one mod that actually gets around the parts count issue by, uh, "welding" lots of small parts into singular, larger parts. [22:56:32] A StarTopia reboot and KSP 2 on the same day. This cannot be a coincidence. Nay, it is a herald of the End Times. [23:02:13] Action: Scolar_Visari begins integrating the puny Humans. [23:02:51] ∫human dx [23:04:23] Their culinary and philosophical uniqueness to be adapted to our own. Resistance is not appreciated. [23:05:45] i can't believe they went with unity [23:10:36] It's 2019, and we still can't make a Steam browser that's not as buggy as circa 1999 Netscape Navigator? [23:11:05] Action: Scolar_Visari recognizes the irony of this while using IRC, something that wasn't even that advanced in 1989. [23:17:30] Action: UmbralRaptop likes to point out that freenode has outlived every Google product, including search [23:20:18] I'm not sure if that's good or bad. That's like pointing out that asbestos has outlived other insulating materials in old buildings. [23:24:43] Hah, Deserts of Kharak was Unity, too. [23:25:49] yeah but you would think with such limitations on the first ksp they would have learned their lesson [23:26:12] which limitations? [23:26:17] Well, the first KSP also did start out on an older version of Unity. [23:26:25] KSP blew past Unity's limitations years ago [23:26:37] Action: Scolar_Visari has nightmares relating to Unity and 64 bit windows shenanigans. [23:26:59] that's because 64-bit windows was badly designed [23:27:01] But that was . . . Fixed, I think? Certainly runs better than it used to. [23:27:14] Nonsense. Windows is, and always has been, perfect. [23:27:18] how can you exceed unity's limitations? [23:27:22] made jumping from 32-bit code to 64-bit code a nightmare [23:27:25] when you are using unity? [23:27:29] Don't listen to them Windows 98. Shhhhhh, it's okay. [23:27:29] drak: very easily [23:27:47] do most of the work in C# [23:28:10] ie, not using Unity or PhysX when possible [23:28:19] Action: Scolar_Visari still ponders how one gets bigger ships and sharper graphics without resorting to Quantum Computing. [23:28:31] i would have just went straight c and skipped unity, not that the money matters to them, but now unity gets a cut too [23:29:25] then you'd have to do your own game engine (graphics, sound, input, etc etc), no small task [23:29:59] also, doing everything in C has its drawbacks [23:30:04] there are many 3d engines out there and many input libraries too [23:30:20] opengl, sdl2, etc [23:30:27] those are not engines [23:30:35] and sdl is... ick [23:30:42] sdl2 is a handler for input [23:30:46] opengl is raw 3d [23:30:49] sdl2 is twice the ick [23:30:59] no not engine, but other libraries to work with ogl [23:31:12] sdl2 is not bad [23:31:16] easy for me [23:31:46] Obviously KSP 2 should've been designed in Telltale Tool. [23:31:47] sdl (1 or 2) makes easy things easy and hard things impossible [23:32:20] what have you tried to do with sdl that was hard for you? [23:32:38] anything beyond the basics for input [23:32:53] ah, just takes time i guess [23:33:03] anyway, I got a very bad taste of SDL with quakeforge [23:33:21] did they use that? [23:33:29] "thay"? [23:33:39] i don't know what quakeforge is [23:33:58] it's only a google away };> [23:34:25] anyway, I have probably 90% of the commits for quakefeforge [23:34:29] and a monitor and a mouse movement and a keyboard type and stuff [23:34:30] lol [23:34:50] the problem with SDL is going beyond the LCD for the various platforms [23:36:04] use opengl in combo with sdl [23:36:07] anyway, I know enough about game engine development to know that unless you have a very good reason to roll your own, you very much do not want to roll your own [23:36:41] yeah it is time consuming, if i was in a hurry i would use a premade engine [23:36:52] but sometimes there is great satisfaction in rolling your own [23:37:04] and at this stage, rolling your own includes bashing a 1996 engine into something modern (yet I do it anyway) [23:38:11] Satisfaction can also require increased development time, which means increased cost, which means, ah, something. [23:38:22] anyway, there's a lot more to a game engine than throwing together a graphics library and input lib [23:38:38] Scolar_Visari: means canned project [23:38:56] of course [23:39:03] Hey, now, you can release a game prematurely too as a budget title! [23:39:15] Action: UmbralRaptop eyes the amount of work that has gone into MJ, FAR, Principia, etc [23:39:24] not if you're stuck rollling your own engine :P [23:39:27] Action: Scolar_Visari tries to imagine how on earth Freelancer came out as well as it did despite its troubled history. [23:39:46] Psht, there are plenty of games that don't have complete engines. Like, ah . . . Big Rig Racing or what's-it? [23:40:24] UmbralRaptop: To his discredit, Newton was a bit of a procrastinator sometimes. [23:41:08] Ah, this game! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPBamIKp8Vs [23:41:09] YouTube - BIG RIGS Over The Road Racing - The worst game ever made... [23:41:09] the first time i did a 3d engine was on vb6, and it was ok, for an interpreted language, then a 2d platformer in c with ogl and sdl [23:42:03] vb1 wasn't even a pipedream when I did my first 2d and 3d games :P [23:42:27] ah the wayback [23:42:32] heck, windows didn't exist [23:42:33] dos? [23:42:36] amiga [23:42:37] yeah, dos [23:42:47] and even further back [23:42:53] apple ][+ [23:42:55] Action: Scolar_Visari laughs in Braben programming Elite on a BBC 2. In a cave. With scraps. [23:42:56] i did assem on amiga, but thats about it [23:43:05] just basic on the c64 [23:43:27] you must be around my age ;) [23:43:48] 48 [23:43:52] ah 46 [23:44:03] bbs's ruled! [23:44:13] That would confirm my suspicion about the demographic which still uses IRC. [23:44:21] Action: Scolar_Visari is ERROR UNDEFINED. [23:44:33] Huh, must not take that many zeros. [23:46:13] Action: Scolar_Visari is upset the Artisan Troupe is already demanding 2000 energy into their second contract. [23:59:08] Action: bees slaps taniwha around a bit with 111 levels