[06:23:41] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Deddly' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net
[07:34:40] <Einarr> Sigh...gotta love it when a MM patch you're writing doesn't work...at all...
[07:47:37] <packbart> well, that happens :)
[07:48:28] <packbart> although the logs or patch output can help. I often forget some syntax thingie, so the patch wouldn't match anything
[07:55:08] <Einarr> Yeah, going through the log now.
[07:58:19] <packbart> can't use "|" or "&" in some of the matches but in others. I often get that wrong. starting KSP with -mm-dump can be useful. it makes MM drop the resulting config tree into _MMCfgOutput/
[08:01:11] <Einarr> Anyone had an issue where the portraits of Kerbals on vessels do not show up in the lower right (and none of the associated icons or buttons do either)? Someone on a TeamSpeak I'm on is getting annoyed with the issue and it's new since he upgraded to 1.8.
[08:01:37] <kubi> 1.8 is a pile of bugs
[08:01:47] <kubi> wait 1-2 patch levels
[08:05:38] <packbart> I remember reading something about portraits and 1.8. was it in the forum or bugtracker, I wonder...
[08:05:56] <packbart> ah. no. changelog. "Fix kerbal portraits when launching vessel with multiple kerbals in external command chairs."
[08:06:16] <packbart> ok, so maybe that broke something else now ;)
[08:07:32] <JVFoxy> those pesky external chairs..
[08:07:51] <JVFoxy> actually.. come to think of it, I hadn't used them since... way way back actually.
[08:08:24] <packbart> I use them on rovers, usually. less often on things that fly
[08:13:23] <JVFoxy> heh.. I did an ultralight plane thing with one seat.
[08:14:45] <JVFoxy> having a little difficuties with making small rovers though.. Or at least something that'll fit a cargo plane..
[08:19:10] <packbart> your plane is just too small ;) two seats on a Rovemate and a jr docking port on top. this one fits a 2.5m fairing: https://formularfetischisten.de/~packbart/temp/kspnb.jpg
[08:19:31] <packbart> (I don't have a better picture of the rover ;)
[08:28:45] <JVFoxy> small?
[08:28:59] <JVFoxy> ugh... so that c5 galaxy styled cockpit thing not big enough?
[08:30:10] <JVFoxy> I'd ground vehicles parts pack... although, I'm starting to wonder if a few of these mods are dipping a little into needing one or both of the paid expansion packs.
[08:31:04] <JVFoxy> I've already run into something on airplanes plus pack, a little rotating light beacon goes a little glitchy if you don't have one of the packs
[08:39:57] <packbart> I bought both KSP and MH in a sale, so I didn't really think about it. When BG came around, I was already a fanboi, shutupandtakemymoney :)
[08:43:03] <JVFoxy> I would get the exansions but sorta struggling with things as it is... sadly
[09:07:39] <Einarr> I was an early adopter, so get the expansions for free...
[09:08:16] <Einarr> Best 'pre-order' experience I've ever had is with KSP. :)
[09:30:11] <Deddly> I was an early adopter of Minecraft and KSP. 
[09:30:50] <Deddly> Well, I say early adopter of Minecraft... I was at least in there whilst it was still in beta, though they had already sold about 4 million copies at the time
[09:31:06] <Deddly> I was one of the first 5 million! I'm special!
[09:31:55] <Deddly> Interestingly, it was Minecraft that led me to KSP.
[09:33:20] <Deddly> I saw a video of a MC mod called Galacticraft where you could build a rocket and fly it to the moon or Mars, and I thought, "It's a shame you can't actually make a proper rocket and fly it into orbit with proper physics etc."
[09:35:40] <Deddly> One Youtuber who often played MC who I watched from time to time suddenly had this "Kerbal Space Program" thing in his video list, and that was exactly what I was looking for
[09:36:08] <XXCoder> :)
[09:36:19] <XXCoder> on both minecraft and ksp, my nephew discovered it
[09:36:34] <XXCoder> man I sure played on mc before car accient
[09:36:54] <XXCoder> ksp I can still play fine but eh maybe ill play again in future
[09:37:09] <Deddly> I watched a whole load of Kurt J Mac KSP videos and I finally bought the game when they said that buying it before April 2013 would get you all future expansions - bargain.
[09:37:23] <XXCoder> oh damn
[09:37:32] <XXCoder> umm not sure when I bought mine
[09:37:42] <XXCoder> umm lets see
[09:38:22] <XXCoder> order is 3/2014
[09:39:05] <Deddly> You were just about exactly a year too late. 
[09:39:12] <XXCoder> too bad heh
[09:39:41] <Deddly> But, honestly, the expansions are worth it. Well, at least the robotics one
[09:40:04] <XXCoder> its not free one?
[09:40:20] <XXCoder> how many extensons is there now, besides free nasa history one?
[09:40:24] <Deddly> It's free for anyone who bought the game before April 2013
[09:41:18] <Deddly> There are two extension packs. First one was Making History, the second is "Breaking Ground"
[09:42:29] <XXCoder> ksp enchanted eh
[09:42:55] <XXCoder> ah ps/xbox
[09:43:20] <Deddly> Breaking Ground is the one with all the robotics parts, hinges, propellers, motors etc.
[09:43:35] <Deddly> Oh right, that's true, there's an expansion pack for consoles too
[09:43:48] <XXCoder> 15 bucks not too bad
[09:43:49] <Deddly> KSP Enhanced is not an expansion though
[09:44:07] <XXCoder> yeah 
[09:44:08] <Deddly> KSP Enhanced edition AKA KSP Working More Properly edition
[09:44:28] <Deddly> The first console release was, shall we say, not very well received
[09:44:34] <XXCoder> lol
[09:45:08] <Deddly> KSP Enhanced was a complete rewrite by a different team
[09:46:01] <XXCoder> interesting
[09:46:10] <XXCoder> i wonder why first team went badly
[09:46:30] <Deddly> The problem with the first release was a bug that completely and irrecoverably destroyed your save file, even online backups once it got over a certain size
[09:46:43] Action: XXCoder cringes
[09:46:51] <XXCoder> in least it didnt delete key system file
[09:47:06] <XXCoder> like that certain game
[09:47:19] <Deddly> Didn't show up in QA because QA people don't tend to play long sessions with the same save file
[09:48:36] <XXCoder> makes sense
[09:48:37] <Deddly> <XXCoder> i wonder why first team went badly <-- Flying Tiger did the port, and there is speculation that they might not have been the best choice, considering their portfolio at the time
[09:49:03] <sandbox> mobile games
[09:49:48] <Deddly> Hey Fluburtur, O Silent One
[09:50:16] <XXCoder> well my current game is tileworld (plays chip challenge map packs)
[09:50:18] <XXCoder> cclp1
[09:50:25] <XXCoder> level 98. that ones a toughie
[09:52:07] <Deddly> I'd like to play MC again but... time
[09:53:53] <XXCoder> i wish I can play mc or minetest without conquences
[09:56:59] <Deddly> What consequences?
[09:57:11] <XXCoder> dizzyness and headaches
[09:57:40] <kubi> is there any good kerbal playen on youtube that I should watch?
[09:57:45] <Deddly> Oh, really?
[09:58:00] <XXCoder> yeah i always had issues with majority of any 3d games
[09:58:06] <Deddly> kubi, good is pretty subjective. What sort of content do you want?
[09:58:17] <XXCoder> then car accient moved minecraft into "makes me literally sick" area
[09:58:44] <sandbox> higher fps?
[09:59:05] <Deddly> Ouch, sorry to hear that
[09:59:33] <Deddly> Lowering field of view can help for some people.
[10:00:12] <XXCoder> it was increasing for me
[10:00:19] <XXCoder> 85 or so
[10:01:38] <Deddly> kubi, stratzenblitz75 makes good videos. My favourite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee59XkEufjA
[10:01:38] <kmath> YouTube - KSP - Duna and back using ONLY electric power and Xenon!
[10:03:03] <XXCoder> heh yep update also killed my ion carplane
[10:04:03] <XXCoder> uh that crazy machine
[10:07:27] <Deddly> I'm not really into massive stuff in KSP just for that sake of it, but that thing is glorious. 
[10:07:42] <Deddly> More importantly, it serves a purpose
[10:07:46] <XXCoder> im pretty sure you saw 3 part to mun? lol
[10:07:54] <XXCoder> its impossible now but yeah
[10:07:59] <Deddly> I actually haven't seen that one
[10:08:22] <XXCoder> guy actually only used 3 parts to land on mun and return
[10:08:38] <sandbox> .
[10:09:03] <XXCoder> welllll 4 if you include the pilot
[10:09:19] <XXCoder> sadly guy will have ptsd for life
[10:09:58] <Deddly> LOL
[10:10:08] <Deddly> Why is it not possible anymore?
[10:10:17] <XXCoder> physics changes
[10:10:26] <XXCoder> uhhh wtf
[10:10:35] <XXCoder> theres new 3 parts. to dun ika and minmus
[10:10:49] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC6boQ0L1CQ
[10:10:49] <kmath> YouTube - 3 Parts to Duna, Ike AND Minmus! | Stock KSP 1.7
[10:12:32] <Deddly> Oh I think I did see that - he had the capsule on the bottom, which gave him extra Dv for some reason
[10:12:35] <Gasher> oh it's the one with that "upside down" exploit
[10:13:05] <XXCoder> interesting
[10:13:16] <Gasher> Deddly, not just that - he says that turning pieces upside down made them have less drag
[10:13:32] <Deddly> Hmmmmmm really?
[10:13:50] <Gasher> that's what the author says in the video
[10:14:16] <Gasher> around 2:15
[10:14:22] <XXCoder> lol "ejecting part" by simply exploding it by heat
[10:14:30] <XXCoder> no more tricky clipping ground
[10:15:22] <Gasher> a variation of the classic exploding bottom stage by igniting the upper one lol
[10:17:26] <Deddly> All parts have less drag upside down?
[10:17:34] <Deddly> I can't watch a video right now
[10:18:15] <UmbralRaptor> depending on node locations 
[10:18:53] <Gasher> oh, right. i was misremembering that a bit
[10:19:03] <Deddly> Drag is not related to notes
[10:19:05] <Deddly> nodes
[10:19:24] <Gasher> so he put the tank on the bottom then moved it upward so that the tank's occupied node was the foremost
[10:19:41] <Deddly> People keep talking about nodes and drag, but they are not related
[10:19:43] <Gasher> anyway, it's very easy to check
[10:19:48] <Deddly> KSP uses drag cubes
[10:20:47] <XXCoder> heh that videos worse. BOTH kerbals haveptsd
[10:21:19] <Gasher> i have KSP at hand but idk which version and mods
[10:22:16] <Gasher> Deddly, then you could watch the video later and comment
[10:22:30] <XXCoder> um why is world so weird at end
[10:22:44] <Deddly> Nobody listens to me anyway ;)
[10:23:26] <Gasher> if there is a difference in drag between the two setups then it'd be interesting to know what you think of that
[10:23:40] <Gasher> also lol it's 0.2.0 on my pc
[10:24:34] <Deddly> LOL
[10:24:50] <XXCoder> gasher why is kerbin so weird at end of that video?
[10:26:06] <XXCoder> black water and sky, land looking odd
[10:26:22] <Gasher> lol no idea
[10:26:58] <UmbralRaptor> graphics mods? 
[10:27:55] <Deddly> An easy way to check: 1) fire a fast rocket straight up, measure max altitude. 2) turn the pod upside down, repeat
[10:33:05] <Gasher> yeah
[10:33:27] <Deddly> Must be fast to exaggerate any change in drag
[10:33:46] <Gasher> i looked in that version screenshot folder and i don't remember what i wanted to do with this https://i.imgur.com/Hey23DN.png
[10:34:05] <XXCoder> sunrays, collect em all!
[10:35:02] <Gasher> oh i can see the ion engines protruding from there, rigth
[10:39:16] <Deddly> Have you really not played since 0.2?
[10:39:25] <Deddly> 0.20
[10:42:56] <Gasher> it was in a backup folder on my laptop
[10:47:55] <Deddly> ah ok
[11:45:27] <Einarr> LOL, missing some { right after some @PART entries in my MM patch. Not one single warning or error was thrown by MM when loading the game. Probably caused the whole patch to fail...
[11:49:12] <Deddly> You forgot the holy { ???
[11:49:33] <Deddly> Oh ye with little faith
[11:54:51] <Einarr> Hmm, that did not seem to be enough to fix it. :(
[11:58:21] <Deddly> Add more {
[11:58:29] <Deddly> Throw in a few } for good measure
[11:58:45] <XXCoder> but not too many or it turns into lisp
[11:58:55] <Einarr> If only that were the solution...
[11:59:02] Action: Einarr gives up for the night...
[12:03:50] <Deddly> Truth be told, giving it up for the night and coming back tomorrow with fresh eyes can solve a lot of problems. Sleep tight, Einarr 
[12:06:51] <Einarr> Not going to bed yet...
[12:06:59] <Einarr> Just giving up on that for now.
[12:07:12] <Deddly> Alrighty
[12:36:53] Action: darsie made orbit with 1530 VF: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot12.png
[13:10:10] <Deddly> Ooh nice. I tried to get a single-stack rocket to orbit using that booster as the first stage but I couldn't make it
[13:13:15] <Deddly> How do you steer that, Darsie?
[13:13:59] <Deddly> And what's 1530 VF?
[13:14:42] <Deddly> Mind you, I was doing it with a Kerbal on the top
[13:15:08] <Deddly> I found out you can squeeze a kerbal inside a stack of decouplers 
[13:15:43] <Deddly> I did get to orbit with only size 0 parts, but I used Sparks instead of boosters
[13:23:15] <darsie> Deddly: Fins, reaction wheels.
[13:23:40] <Deddly> Oh, reaction wheels
[13:23:47] <darsie> In the pod.
[13:24:05] <darsie> VF=virtual funds
[13:25:06] <Deddly> Of course, I wasn't thinking. I was making a comparison with the rocket I made that didn't have any reaction wheels because there was no pod. I had a Kerbal sitting inside a stack of decouplers as a mini-fairing and she was controlling the rocket. The only control authority I has was engine gimballing
[13:25:27] <Deddly> Ah, funds. That's pretty cheap :)
[13:25:53] <Deddly> What's the TWR of your first stage?
[13:26:01] <darsie> Dunno.
[13:26:27] <darsie> bbl
[13:35:56] <Deddly> OK, seeya
[20:48:05] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net