[00:11:25] oren, there's geysers for various fluids, from the wiki. [00:11:58] but they're annoying to find [00:12:25] in an actual game I've only ever found the natural gas geysers [00:12:46] it's been a couple releases since I played actively. [00:12:46] those do produce free PH2O [00:13:34] which you can electize [00:14:14] So if you have a way to make power, even at the expense of heat, yeah. [00:15:38] i had an idea just now. I could totally disinfect an entire slime biome by piping in chlorine [00:15:49] In terms of surfaces, yeah. [00:16:03] My idea was to take a gas pipe carrying random base atmosphere. [00:16:18] It only requires one gas filter, where convenient, to take chlorine out. [00:16:32] if the mining of slime takes place under a chlorine atmosphere then the dupes won't get any germs on them [00:16:49] right. and at room temperature... bingo [00:17:43] Just make sure everyone eats somewhere else. [00:17:48] Most of the time. [00:17:58] I think I'm starting to view chlorine as a very useful gas [00:18:46] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o purpletarget|zzzz' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [00:20:13] Or I guess I could have a gas chamber between the swamp and the base [00:20:13] If you want a mostly-chlorine intake, the easy way is to put it under anywhere CO2 will pool. [00:20:51] gas chamber with a sink would do it. [00:21:00] or a shower [00:21:25] I like the showers even tho they are huge [00:21:43] Action: Pakaran nods [00:22:39] If you wanted to get fancy, use logic circuits to keep chlorine under a specific pressure. [00:24:39] Vent to a few tiles at moderate pressure. [00:26:23] ugh still can't figure out how to get the probe to take over as active vessel temporarily. [00:28:32] oren, note that bleachstone is to chlorine as oxyalite is to oxygen. [00:30:56] also, grr [00:32:48] If you manage that, I'm definitely interested. Next game of ONI... [00:34:28] just need to flush contaminated oxygen. [00:34:48] Which chlorine under pressure would manage, I suspect. [00:41:39] https://www.amazon.com/MSI-GT-1030-2G-LP/dp/B071L4VKF6/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1517272727&sr=1-1&keywords=MSI+Geforce+1030 - FINALLY found one that would fit my case. [00:42:26] nvidia tho/ [00:43:04] So? All I ever owned :) [00:45:43] ... [00:45:59] oren: don't think I missed your fbomb in this channel. [00:46:05] Don't do that again [00:46:08] My game loads, but when loading my save, it hangs, sometimes on a black screen, sometimes with the loading icon [00:46:33] There are some MM errors in the log, but they occur way back [00:46:42] Anyone got troubleshooting tips? [00:47:23] What are the mm errors [00:48:05] https://bpaste.net/show/1318773bdfc5 [00:48:36] The only one of those mods that I even have is OrbitalScience [00:48:50] And that's the only error you have encountered? [00:49:46] Only keyword matching 'error' or 'Error', except loading error beeps etc [00:50:32] What about NullReference [00:50:44] Oh hmm [00:51:05] 2 from Tweakscale [00:52:38] What exactly does it say? [00:53:07] Oh, Kerbalism forum says that it doesn't work with MM 3.0. Rollback to 2.8.1. [00:53:10] Try loading the save without TweakScale, see if it even loads [00:53:15] Hopefully that doesn't break something els [01:02:46] CKAN is showing me lots of versions of MM but there doesn't seem to be an option to rollback? [01:12:30] Manually clobbered it with 2.8.1, but now my vessels don't load their NFLV parts [01:15:40] *sigh* I guess I'll leave this save until Shotgunninja comes back and fixes it, and try out TAC or USI [01:15:59] I did have a weird idea that makes good use of liquid chlorine. [01:16:42] Liquid chlorine, and water/steam, on either side of a sump filled with water will strongly prefer to stay there. The same is true of chilled chlorine gas, I'd think. [01:18:45] But one of those, you're only powering one gas filter. [01:19:38] glass? can't you make that with, oh right, silicon and oxygen. [01:24:52] It is REALLY ANNOYING that it takes THIRTEEN MINUTES to test this script. [02:41:33] Jeb did amazingly! https://imgur.com/a/YBKb1 [02:41:33] https://i.imgur.com/wlHWqdW.png [02:44:18] https://78.media.tumblr.com/d4bab1b5795982f8f25dfeb19f88ee4c/tumblr_movvm0B9Cz1rsnsxho1_540.jpg [02:45:43] heh. [02:46:46] Big flamingo in a small pond? [02:47:51] Guest56386, hi. [02:50:24] um... another ghost guest huh? [02:52:14] I didn't even start on the Minmus design, much less irc hopping.dd [03:17:27] confirmed. slime in a chlorine atmoshere does not have any slimelung germs [03:21:24] wooo [03:22:23] I was, quite seriously, concerned about using enough chlorine to exhaust an actual chlorine biome,. [03:22:34] Still playing KSP at the moment in any case. [03:23:29] You're using a water sump between the slime mine and the main base? [03:23:48] yeah [03:24:18] the slime still emits PO2, but there is no germs [03:24:23] nod. [03:24:30] and they die as soon as they see Cl2. [03:24:51] Considering it takes half a cycle to get sick if you TRY... [03:25:38] canned air, and other non-breathable coolants, closed cycle or otherwise, are almost a bonus with that design? [03:27:05] NO germs is better than I expected! [03:28:25] Hydrogen has a high heat capacity. [03:29:18] Okay, I think I've done it right. I can at least set the probe to be the active vessel, now to see if I can switch back after the burn. [03:29:22] pakaran still on about chorine...? What you messing about with now? [03:29:36] ... chlorine I meant.. ugh [03:29:58] Not playing ONI, again. [03:30:24] Seriously, I do feel bad. I'm off work at the moment, and was drinking this evening. [03:30:38] Oni... as in the game or this some mod for ksp? [03:30:53] I REALLY hope that anyone that actually messed with it would know better, and frankly crooks don't need to pay attention to anything I say. [03:30:54] the game. [03:30:59] oxygen not included. [03:31:44] oooooh... [03:31:46] lol sorry... [03:31:49] Nor am I aware of any mod using chlorine, and compounds thereof, in rockets. Because it's an unsafe idea. [03:31:57] No, I felt really sheepish about the whole thread... [03:32:17] (honestly, oxygen is better) [03:32:21] I just neve heard of Oxygen NI.. as being called ONI.. I was thinking the Bungie game [03:32:27] Oh, ok. [03:32:43] room mate I had ages ago, had the game.. [03:32:44] Personally, I have an oxygen habit dating back years. [03:32:47] aah [03:33:07] So, seriously, I didn't cross lines? [03:33:19] shrug [03:33:26] with so many mods out there these days... [03:33:29] nod [03:33:42] yeah. [03:33:47] ... [03:34:03] as a human being, one problematic thing IS that that other element, the one next to oxygen? [03:34:18] is a common industrial chemical, but IS capable of being used harmfully. [03:35:10] which one..? Nitrogen, flurine, sulfur... [03:35:11] Fluorine or nitrogen? [03:35:20] heh [03:35:25] actually all of the above. [03:35:37] Though you need carbon and potassium to make black powder. [03:35:38] going diagnal... phosforus, chorline.. [03:35:56] phosphorus..... >.> [03:36:05] Solid fuel. [03:36:14] Way too easy to drop a booster on the space station. [03:36:19] Or even the space center. [03:36:42] I finally got my lifter to deploy the second probe. It coasted a few meters, turned to orient for its circularization burn -- and slammed full speed into the lifter. [03:37:09] I barely avoided being hit by my second stage at ~65 km. [03:37:53] heh.. self returning boosters seems to be all the trend now [03:38:04] I'll build a 3 stage rocket so that doesn't happen again! [03:38:25] so much for surplus of orange fuel tanks in orbit to make into stations [03:38:39] I don't return back to KSC, I just drop 'em back on Kerbin so they're out of orbit. [03:38:57] Leaving nothing in orbit is a goal. [03:39:18] Boosters go into the ocean, with the first stage. Second stage is suborbital. [03:39:33] Transfer stage, eventually, gets to meet Mun up close. [03:39:54] Now, landing on Mun is scary. [03:39:59] I've a few things in orbit... though they not completely dead. eventually will recover them, either recyle or give them a new lease on life as something else [03:40:15] What do you do with rescuees' pods? [03:40:24] I've a docking target still in orbit of one of my careers, but lacks RCS for proper docking [03:40:25] Last game, I would leave them in orbit and just end mission. [03:41:13] aah. [03:41:26] Ok, target vehicle to dock with is going on my long list to try. [03:41:53] first time docking target gives you a few achievements [03:42:53] cool [03:44:07] 92 mods, new record [03:44:22] Oh I forgot Sigma [04:16:12] Terrier unlocked. [04:16:32] along with many nice parts from mods. [04:36:36] wfound thre gas vent! [04:44:51] natural gas? [04:46:35] Now, can I do a Minmus design with 30 parts? [04:47:10] Pakaran: oh sure [04:47:56] Camera angle helps. https://imgur.com/a/be4BJ [04:47:56] https://i.imgur.com/w6Bjg7N.jpg [04:49:36] Seriously, what's a good lander engine? [04:49:54] Pakaran: one that provides sufficient TWR [04:50:27] Spinnaker? [04:52:37] but MUCH lighter. [04:53:17] *it's almost a Terrier, but much lighter. [04:53:20] Honestly, on Minmus, it might well handle like a thing that handles so well it bounces back a kilometer. [04:54:40] 2800 to unlock, and I know I'll use it. [04:55:52] Pakaran: really, all you need is > 1.5x local TWR [04:56:01] (though that low does make landing difficult) [04:56:16] (actually, I've done it with 1.2) [04:56:31] but 2-3 makes life much easier [05:01:38] 18 parts so far, down to the Beagle for second stage. [05:02:15] And that's with, basically, building it out of too many FL-T400s, because I have launch pad level 2 [05:02:31] no fins, no science. [05:10:11] Exactly 30 parts, no science, no nose cones :/ https://imgur.com/a/XPvf8 [05:10:11] https://i.imgur.com/rgd0Bwl.jpg [05:11:57] also, no electrical system because it's not unlocked. [05:12:23] I had planned to just get Val into LKO so she can do SAS prograde/retrograde for the *next* mission, lol [05:12:56] Could do no solid fuel at all? [05:13:36] If the Swivel can get that monstrosity off the pad. [05:14:55] #stockworldproblems [05:18:32] https://imgur.com/a/aAv1f [05:18:32] https://i.imgur.com/oR6MbM7.jpg [05:20:14] 0.84 TWR on the pad is probably bad? [05:21:52] I hate when stuff gets wiggly for no obvious reason, and I need to break out advanced tweakables. [05:24:43] https://imgur.com/a/eiR0h 28. [05:24:44] https://i.imgur.com/1SFsDx0.jpg [05:25:15] 28 parts, but less delta-v. [05:25:23] thoughts? things to work on to get to Minmus? [05:26:44] Still 1.02 TWR on the pad. [05:26:45] Pakaran: remove the monoprop from the capsule [05:27:10] and go to like, 70 ablator or less left? [05:27:27] yeah, you don't need much coming from Minmus [05:27:46] especially if you put your return Pe at about 20km [05:28:45] The two parts COULD be a booster under everything, but I don't have one close to big enough. [05:30:59] Goo canisters are heavy :/ [05:35:34] eva and crew reports will get you enough science to get better parts [05:35:52] https://imgur.com/a/rJMs2 [05:35:53] https://i.imgur.com/3o0OlL4.jpg [05:35:55] yeah. [05:35:59] also, take lots of tourism contracts so you can upgrade your facilities [05:36:20] a 2.5m first stage would solve this problem very quickly. [05:40:56] taniwha, I have a contract to test the swivel on the pad. But, how's this? https://imgur.com/a/TrYoF [05:40:56] https://i.imgur.com/DG22kgm.jpg [05:42:16] you don't need 7km/s ”V to get to Minmus, land and return [05:43:48] True. [05:43:56] 3500m/s will get you to LKO easily enough. another 1000m/s will get you to Minmus. Maybe 300m/s to get into orbit around Minmus. About 200m/s to land, another 200m/s to get back into Minmus orbit, and 300m/s to get back to Kerbin (landed) [05:44:12] so about 5.5km/s [05:44:24] (note: I did a lot of rounding up) [05:44:29] So I'm past the point of solving the actual problem? [05:44:31] Yeah. [05:44:45] I mean, 7 is enough to get from the Cape to India. [05:45:09] er... you are using stock Kerbin, right? [05:45:17] Yes. [05:45:28] whew :) (numbers are valid) [05:45:47] Yeah, I was just making a point that I agree that I'm comfortable with the numbers. [05:45:54] Even though I'm not the world's greatest pilot. [05:45:56] ok [05:46:41] but if I go back to straight liquid fuel [05:47:06] I need to make it several tonnes lighter on the pad [05:48:04] you'll find that you won't need as much mass either [05:48:30] solids are very massive and provide very little ”V [05:49:10] Ok, so swivel at 100% is reasonable? [05:49:17] For this rather constrained design? [05:49:48] reliant(?) (T30) is better for thrust and mass [05:50:19] when you have fins, you don't need vectoring [05:50:19] yeah, I mean, I can test the swivel on the pad anytime. [05:50:32] can test it without fuel, even [05:50:37] pod+engine [05:51:05] which then is 100% recovered. [05:51:05] test. "nothing happened". "yup, needs fuel" :) [05:51:06] right [05:54:04] https://imgur.com/a/hHWH2 [05:54:28] https://i.imgur.com/ji9d6rN.jpg [05:54:51] Well over 5.8 kps. [05:55:00] Could probably use less fuel, as well. [05:55:28] did you remove the monoprop? [05:55:50] Yes. I have 80 kg ablator, none is probably fine. [05:55:54] Even at SOI edge, but. [05:56:02] yeah [05:56:28] what are those big black things above the launch clamps [05:56:30] ? [05:58:15] Oh, I have shroud on, but the LV-909 and LV-900 apparently have models wider than 1.25m. [05:58:35] This is odd given that the former is a stock part. [05:59:35] fixed now. [05:59:51] a weird fairing issue is something I'd just revert over, anyhow. [06:00:10] anyway, other than worrying about whether the fins are control surfaces or static, it looks like your rocket should work [06:00:17] thanks. [06:00:40] and /now/ I find the resources panel :P [06:03:33] I'm going to upgrade the astronaut complex for EVA. [06:03:42] And next time, do it right, and probably more simply too. [06:04:42] What I do is the first time I get into /space/, I pop back to the space center, upgrade the AC, return to my sub-orbital ship, and start EVAing [06:05:06] :) [06:25:37] https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/929300138429198038/F941A015288AF7CA686D53839A11E3C2DA62B529/ [06:26:04] wow. [06:26:12] that's a lot of slime and algae already mined :) [06:27:37] no overpressure either. [06:28:30] that storage compactor is filled with slime, kept under chlorine, so it offgasses PO2 and I can collect and sanitize that [06:30:10] which may not be as mass-effective but it is energy-efficient method of creating oxygen [06:31:08] and it's completely free. [06:31:17] let me check the wiki [06:31:48] I believe eating with dirty hands is the problem, for that matter, not eating in a slime biome. [06:32:23] So if someone once did it, when you weren't paying attention, they wouldn't have dirty hands, since they're in chlorine. [06:33:50] Slime is depleted. [06:34:19] It can be converted to dirt at 125c, but there's other ways to get that, and in quantity. [06:35:46] Jeb is going this time, since he has one star. [06:36:19] Val will go on an orbital flight to get science from Kerbin's poles as suggested earlier. [06:37:31] better to go for the mun as soon as possible, kerbin does not give you much. it is ok to do it if there is some time between nodes and you can fly back to recover money [06:38:30] yesterday i managed to land asteroid within 25 km of the center, i could have landed it closer but too lazy to reload again [06:38:51] also what is a more or less sane way to transport it? [06:40:51] big flatbed rover? [06:41:14] 25km? a bit too far ? [06:41:22] Hmm. [06:41:27] How heavy is the asteroid? [06:41:32] Bear in mind, I am a newbie. [06:44:24] Althego, this is my current design, intended to get to Minmus with 30 stockalike parts and no boosters. https://imgur.com/a/U0TQQ [06:44:24] https://i.imgur.com/YN4cj3u.jpg [06:44:42] Space program may need money badly, however. [06:45:08] that can orbit the mun [06:45:14] polar orbit, collect all eva science [06:45:47] ooh. [06:46:05] 17 biomes [06:46:15] and even if the polar orbit isn't quite circular, the periapse will pass over a bunch of them. [06:46:17] holy. [06:46:19] plus above high [06:46:40] problem is you probably cant come back from the polar orbit easily [06:46:49] hmm [06:47:10] Wait until whichever pole you're heading towards Kerbin, and burn prograde right over it? [06:47:18] Paka, are you just starting career? [06:47:19] you can also take the smaller instruments too [06:47:39] Draconiator, yeah, moderate difficulty. [06:47:46] the group talked me into it, but it's a lot of fun. [06:48:00] https://imgur.com/olIbuld [06:48:00] https://i.imgur.com/olIbuld.gifv [06:50:23] Pakaran, its A class, this particular is 4.5 tons [06:51:06] Gasher[work], Ok, so to rough it out mentally, it's my design from the Terrier up. That could fit in a cargo plane? [06:51:15] nope [06:57:43] its too large to put into a container [06:58:24] and using the claw would require some careful positioning it, grabbign and then lifting the whole thing with landing legs [06:58:54] hmm [06:59:33] I was thinking mass, not bulk. [07:00:20] mass is emulated during design by a fuel tank with crossed over fuel and oxy [07:01:15] that makes sense. I remember someone telling me to get a 400 tank into orbit before I thought about landing anywhere. [07:01:27] Pakaran, https://i.imgur.com/tK6qqUj.jpg [07:02:05] And you can't sneak it in with a load of scrap metal? ;) [07:03:06] i think i can recover it but that's now what i want [07:03:16] Ok, another silly idea. A kerbal, a booster, and basically a rocket sled. [07:03:39] Push it towards KSC. [07:03:40] quoting " more or less sane way..." [07:07:47] I think I saw a procedural winch mod somewhere. [07:08:12] Now, winching it across 20 km of ground would be slower than driving, and would also scratch up the rock quite badly. [07:09:00] lol [07:09:18] i am thinking of catapult now for some reason [07:09:24] Use a medium sized booster to launch it ballistically? [07:09:44] won't be too much heating if the booster has appropriate thrust limiting. [07:09:52] still that requires to orientate it [07:10:00] hm [07:10:18] maybe just launch it back to orbit [07:10:27] Ok, no boosters. [07:10:37] A one-stage rocket, with a swivel and a few tonnes of fuel? [07:12:29] if it all fails i can just use converter, drill and claw to remove all fuel from the rock and as it is 90% fuel it would be very light after that [07:13:24] a flatbed truck would still be an hour or so drive. [07:14:07] i should sleep... [07:14:37] heh [07:14:41] night then [07:22:52] but I'm out of ideas... [07:24:24] orbiting the mun sounds good. [07:24:38] I'll vary the design just a tad. [07:34:43] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Judge_Dedd' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [07:36:20] First stage could do with less fuel, and more thrust at launch... [07:39:32] If I combine the lander and transfer stage, there's a lot of dry mass to haul all the way out to Mun and back. [07:50:42] Pakaran, i think 1.7 TWR is optimal for first stage [07:59:34] https://goo.gl/4mBjjU useful for cow launching [08:02:07] not really, because what if the cow spins? [08:04:25] well you have just formulated the first problem of cow launching - stopping the spin [08:06:21] https://i.imgur.com/1luI97R.gifv [08:09:05] that's a way to break the machine [08:09:43] with a cat? [08:10:42] with imbalanced setup [08:56:58] what's the drag coefficient of a cow? asking for a friend [08:57:54] lpg: depends on the way it is served. [08:58:32] whole cow, face first, legs locked; assume full rigor mortis [09:00:06] vigor mortis [09:00:28] that is a magic card [09:00:50] yes i know [09:00:59] should have a pretty good drag coefficient. Depends a bit where the head is, but otherwise... [09:58:34] damn, this is monstrous plane and it does not fly [10:02:51] Gasher[work]: cube-square law [10:03:32] the mass of your plane goes by the cube of the scale while the lifting area goes by the square [10:04:32] so to get sufficient lift, your velocity goes by the power of 1.5 [10:04:43] monstrous in form not size [10:05:04] it can't fly but it can takeoff [10:06:02] https://i.imgur.com/NE0UkaL.jpg [10:07:35] ah, you lack yaw stability due to the front "pylons" [10:09:54] seems so [10:11:15] replace them with structural parts? [10:11:27] that should help [10:16:11] still yaw seems to be unstable by FAR analysis [10:18:07] not surprising, really [10:18:31] (taking more looks) [10:18:45] those wings are huge, especially with those upwards tips [10:19:08] you'll need a rather substantial tail (or longer fuselage) [10:21:12] hahaha, gosh, that is a very KSP plane [10:22:45] with longer tail COP goes too far behind COM [10:23:07] so you need to make further adjustments [10:23:16] remember, it's all a balancing act [10:24:40] lpg: perhaps you were looking for https://blogs.mentor.com/robinbornoff/blog/2015/10/12/can-cows-fly-floefd-investigates-part-3-superbly-sonic/ ? [10:56:47] well at least it reached the place https://i.imgur.com/CHeuia6.jpg [11:00:25] https://i.imgur.com/4C4n5Pq.jpg [11:06:32] aaaaa damn missed https://i.imgur.com/rDB6ajJ.jpg [11:06:42] lol [11:06:48] so near yet so far [11:07:10] can use other plane tp push it up? [11:07:42] that won't work, it's too high [11:08:39] i drove over the rock then lifted up wheels and too high [11:13:39] and shorter wheel column version is much less stable [11:14:13] Gasher[work]: why are you at work playing KSP? ;P [11:14:31] also stock hinges and such things would've been great, but we will never get them. [11:14:35] they can't find anything for me to do [11:16:12] damn, crashed halfway to the site [11:22:14] Gasher[work]: got idea for ya [11:22:17] rock lifter [11:24:04] ? [11:32:05] damn [11:32:59] Gasher[work]: ok, when can I start? :D [11:33:03] basically a plane that can land on rock, flips and uses legs to lift rock up [11:34:45] how is that simplier [11:35:13] also reached the site, now lets see how high it is [11:45:48] nope no contact https://i.imgur.com/OrnIoPK.jpg [11:46:04] lol [11:46:29] retract wheels? [11:47:45] they are already retracted [11:51:42] ok, let it stay there [11:52:53] put a ladder on it [11:53:02] and climb on the ladder with a kerbal [11:53:28] if the kerbal gets stuck, the climbing force is not negated and it will lift it [11:53:46] or at least move it [11:54:26] stuck where? [11:55:51] i happen to have a kerbal there, lets see [11:56:08] oops game crashed [11:56:53] hehe [11:57:01] you know, the infinite drive [11:57:06] i think it can still work [11:57:17] if a kerbal climbs on a ladder there are no counter forces [11:57:37] so if there is a metal plate above the ladder, the kerbal is stuck on the it, yet, still trying to climb [11:57:47] and the coutner force is not applied [11:57:49] too complicated [11:57:57] so the kerbal creates a net force on the object by climbing [12:17:51] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o APlayer' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [13:23:13] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o Dozeman979' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [13:33:13] I don't think computers are not as prevalent as they used to be (desktops anyway) [13:37:05] https://i.imgur.com/pVvfmZF.png [13:39:32] https://i.imgur.com/59ytc4j.png [13:39:54] why is that thing shining? :v [13:40:36] i have no idea [13:40:52] that is the magic bouldr texture [13:40:58] since 1.2 or so [13:41:06] https://i.imgur.com/g67VF8C.png [13:41:11] it is applied to some regular asteroids randomly [13:41:16]