[00:10:54] I mean you could just find the part based on stats. Usually aren't exact matches for mass, value, and whatever other parameters [00:43:42] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o UmbralRaptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [01:34:15] Sons and daughters of Kerbin: It launches the payload into orbit or else it gets the scrub again! [01:35:43] Scolar_Visari: put the propellant in the basket [01:36:39] NOOOO! [01:36:58] Action: Scolar_Visari conspires to steal Buffalo Kosmonaut's space dog. [01:37:03] Sanjay et al. "Venus' Spectral Signatures and the Potential for Life in the Clouds" Astrobiology 2018 https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/ast.2017.1783 [01:44:24] In which Zubrin probably overestimates the amount of water ice on the Moon http://spacenews.com/op-ed-moon-direct-how-to-build-a-moonbase-in-four-years/ [01:44:43] From the article: "There are spots at both lunar poles where sunlight is accessible all the time, as well as permanently shadowed craters nearby where water ice has accumulated." [01:45:31] How long has the "permanent dark ice craters" thing been going on? [01:45:40] I feel like I heard of it years ago. [01:45:44] Lucey et al. "Ice Distribution at the Poles of the Moon and Mercury: The Role of Regolith Overturn" 49th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference 2018 https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2018/pdf/1678.pdf [01:46:12] From that article: "On the Mo on however, the correlation between temperature and consi s tent evidence for ice is poor." [01:46:24] Action: Scolar_Visari stabs the spacing issues of pdfs. [01:47:03] Action: UmbralRaptop hands Scolar_Visari a tarball full of knives. [01:47:43] "At the lunar poles, surface ice is the exception and is patchy verging on non-existence." [01:48:37] I can't even begin to imagine how Zubrin would calculate the actual expense of the excavation and processing equipment needed to fuel up ascent vehicles in situ. [01:49:15] Action: Scolar_Visari notes the increasingly problematic nature of Lunar water recovery makes baking asteroids for water more and more attractive. [01:50:06] :3 [01:53:41] There's also a more detailed breakdown of the polar water issues via Fisher et al.s' "Evidence for surface water ice in the lunar polar regions using reflectance measurements from the Lunar Orbiter Laser Altimeter and temperature measurements from the Diviner Lunar Radiometer Experiment" Icarus 2017 http://luna1.diviner.ucla.edu/~dap/pubs/088.pdf [01:57:58] To be honest: Zubrin should no better. The particular amount of water ice on the Moon has *always* been a contentious matter, and hinging an entire program on its recovery prior to a more detailed understanding is plain silly. [02:01:07] We have no idea what a mobile Lunar ice mining vehicle would look like so as to fit inside an expanded Falcon payload fairing, let alone cost! [02:11:40] Though, given Zubrin's rather silly beliefs regarding petroleum . . . [02:12:33] Abiotic Oil ? [02:13:57] ve2dmn: Oh no, he seemed to operate under the belief that OPEC controlled all of the U.S. oil, ignoring where the vast majority of imports actually come from. [02:14:10] Action: Scolar_Visari looks at the two big countries bordering the continental United States. [02:14:25] Alberta? [02:14:53] Zubrin was also big into the plant based gasoline alternatives, which is . . . dubious. [02:15:30] only works if we can find way to re-use currently discarded plant matter [02:15:40] (instead of using food) [02:16:40] Amusingly, since the publication of his book on the subject, the U.S. has become a net exporter of petrol. [02:18:24] It goes to should that one should never dicard the 4 influencers of society: the law, social norms, the market, and architecture (technical infrastructure). [02:18:35] There's also that matter of water depletion in the regions where biofuels would be grown. [02:18:57] ve2dmn: Only four? Why is the Zodiac not in there!? [02:19:23] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathetic_dot_theory [02:20:19] Which Zodiac? [02:20:31] plant-based ("bio") fuels are a great step towards sustainability, but that sustainability is immediately destroyed if you use growing areas that would normally be used for growing food [02:21:02] Eddi: As it is, humanity grows far more food than it needs and, in the particular case of maize, doesn't actually use most of it for human food. [02:21:07] Eddi|zuHause: the promising technology I heard about was alguea-based [02:21:42] of course, why it didn't take off... well.. It's complicated [02:22:11] However, less agriculture would be preferable instead of more, particularly in places like Brazil. [02:22:12] well, we do have the technology to make non-oil-based fuel for 100 years. [02:22:52] Eddi|zuHause: and cars can be modified to run on alcohol [02:23:04] (by hydrating coal, which is still non-renewable, but coal is much further out from depletion) [02:23:13] Petroleum is just the most convinient and cheap form of power [02:23:35] IIRC, you use less oil by putting it directly into cars instead of growing corn. [02:23:49] sadly [02:23:56] but... politics [02:24:28] it would also be more energy efficient to put down solar panels and feed the electric power into cars (including all storage losses) than grow "bio"fuel [02:24:42] by land area that is [02:25:14] The UAE is looking into that. With 350 days of sun out of 365 [02:25:31] what do they do the other 15 days? :p [02:25:45] Hide from the sand storms [02:26:28] And from Shai hulud. May his passing cleanse the world [02:26:50] i don't know about that one [02:28:28] ve2dmn: Perhaps we should try using Spice Melange as a petrol substitute? [02:29:52] it would probably be sustainable, yes [02:30:43] although, if we start doing that, we may have to chnage the TV show 'Deadly Catch' to 'Deadly Harvest' [02:31:36] Action: Scolar_Visari should have perhaps started with Zubrin's more recent championing of modern global warming as a positive phenomenon. [02:32:07] Positive for whom? [02:32:16] ve2dmn: I'd totally like to watch carryall crews recovering their spice miners in the nick of time as sand worms jump out at them. [02:32:54] "Warning: Worms sign" [02:33:21] Something about how more carbon-dioxide being good for agriculture. I'm gonna guess he didn't pay attention to the issues of population deplacements due to sea level and climate changes and the precipitation issues that might result. [02:33:40] That, and invasive species [02:33:59] Animals move. Plants don't move as fast [02:34:28] From Zubrin's own Twitter page: "Global warming has not only benefited the USA with increased rainfall, but most of the world. We are making the Earth a more fertile planet." [02:34:28] so insect (that would normaly die in the winter) survive in more north latitudes [02:34:53] Action: Scolar_Visari looks at the local droughts in California, once of America's most important agricultural centers. [02:35:15] But, you know, totes increased rainfall! We'll just forget to factor in expanding water usage and water table depletion. [02:35:30] And where do you think Arizona get their water? [02:35:42] ve2dmn: I figured they just cast a level three water spell. [02:35:49] Surely there's a materia for that, right? [02:36:00] global warming looks pretty positive to me [02:36:06] Action: ve2dmn is scared sometimes to live in the largest basin of fresh water in North America [02:36:06] Action: bees could be biased a little bit [02:36:51] ve2dmn: Then again, if Mako energy reactors were a thing, I could actually see Zubrin advocating their use en masse. [02:37:06] well, it is somewhat true that higher carbondioxide concentration makes chlorophyll work more efficiently [02:37:31] but that doesn't automatically mean that plants grow better [02:37:47] Reality resist simplicity [02:38:01] it's always more complicated that it seems at first [02:38:42] You know, Zubrin's field of expterise isn't in anything remotely related to biology or climate but one would hope that he could've done a bit more than simplify what he remembered from high school biology. [02:38:46] it is also true that 70% of CO2->O2 conversion happens in the ocean [02:39:11] so changes in ocean temperature have much more effect than just "rainfall" [02:39:15] Scolar_Visari: that never stopped anyone :D [02:40:00] and higher CO2 concentration means the ocean gets more acidic, which has all sorts of implications on existing life adaptations [02:40:46] which then means it probably gets a lot worse before it gets better [02:41:32] Eddi: I'm sure the obligate anaerobes would appreciate our contribution to their future dominance! [02:41:52] "Those oxygen metabolizing do-gooders will soon rue the day!" [02:43:35] i think we're still a few steps out from extinguishing oxygen from the atmosphere :p [02:44:10] we would have a slight venus problem long before we meaningfully change oxygen percentage [02:44:12] Psht, I saw Interstellar [02:44:34] I didnt. No spoilers [02:44:44] and then water vapor problem before that [02:45:18] ve2dmn: Spoiler alert . . . It's out of this star system! Hence the title. [02:45:45] Hrm . . . Perhaps I was to hasty? Zubrin is less pro global warming and more anti-environmentalist than I remember. [02:48:46] Action: Scolar_Visari wonders if any one ever pointed out to Zubrin that there is, in fact, no global blanket ban on DDT. [02:49:35] hmmm [02:49:53] anyone know if using tweakscale on resource scanning parts alters their FOV or operating altitude specs? [02:58:53] In Soviet Russia, space station orbits *you!* https://fantlab.ru/blogfiles/b17171/img/1 [03:04:39] https://www.amazon.com/Conexant-RD01-D850-V-92-Data-Modem/dp/B001P9CZ5S - wowwww I have this old thing, wanted to see what it was. Mine has 1 port though, not 2 [03:05:52] I suppose this is one way to do it http://spacearchitect.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/AG_JPL_Presentation01_04_Page_53.png [03:06:26] Draconiator: But do you have a floppy disk drive lying around? [03:07:23] No I don't. wish I did. [03:09:38] Action: Scolar_Visari would prefer not to have to go through the tedious process of installing games via multiple diskettes. [03:11:28] Tiny cylinder is tiny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVFNXFCuBvc [03:11:28] YouTube - "O'Neil Cylinder" - Rotating habitat (small) interior - SFIA [03:13:46] I used to do that woth our first Win3.1 computer. [03:13:46] Noice https://i.imgur.com/MnBSsJJ.png [03:14:10] Draconiator: I seem to recall installations taking a long time even with one diskette. [03:14:59] Yeah. that thing had a 2x CD-ROM drive. back then only a few games came on CD though [03:17:33] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6hCytZPZ6c [03:17:33] YouTube - Top 10 Signs You SUCK at a Video Game [03:18:13] Soviet Venusian sky cities! https://78.media.tumblr.com/b50949f161cd375983c10472cd83905a/tumblr_nl2z0zCV3p1qc72umo1_1280.jpg [03:20:17] "#5. You Resort to Trash Talking" - This is why I always keep voice chat OFF. [03:24:03] i think they studied a bunch of League of Legends games, and found that the people who complain the loudest are also the ones that play the weakest in a match [03:24:33] sounds like an attribution issue [03:25:37] :3 [03:25:48] "if you think everyone around you is an asshole, YOU are probably the asshole" [03:25:50] External attributions of failiure lead to someone not seeing thier own [03:26:28] i've had the pleasure to work with such a person the past year [03:26:56] Aha, so there was a larger version of it! https://78.media.tumblr.com/3fb43f2a0fe271668a6c7a08a47673b4/tumblr_mgeom5Mh091qztcdbo1_1280.jpg [03:27:04] Action: TheKosmonaut pokes Eddi|zuHause not so gently with the language rule [03:27:49] Action: Scolar_Visari seriously ponders the idea of open-roofed areas of houses within climate controlled space colonies. [03:28:00] I mean, it's not like it would ever rain in all but the very largest examples. [03:28:33] you really want your neighboors to watch your every moves? [03:28:46] yeah, i think it's a privacy issue [03:29:02] also a "that's just how houses look" issue [03:30:26] like people built castles with features which have no defensive use whatsoever, just they make it look more castle-like [03:30:38] ve2dmn: Well, if you think about it, a lot of families in Earth's history only used the insides of houses for sleeping and storage. [03:31:08] Ancient Egyptians throughout the eras, for example, tended to perform many activities on the flat roofs. [03:31:50] While sleeping areas would likely be covered for privacy, I could see dining rooms and living areas not unlike outdoor porches today. [03:36:01] Alright, don't like repeating Qs, but since the channel's more active now -- anyone know if using tweakscale on resource scanning parts (stock or modded) affects their properties -- things like FoV, optimal operation altitude, etc? [03:36:03] I'd also hope certain annoying organisms (coughmosquitoscough) would not be brought along. [03:36:33] Also, has anyone ever used the scansat parts that come with the ProbesPlus mod? [03:36:52] Action: Scolar_Visari should probably play KSP again sometime. [03:37:13] Action: Eddi|zuHause should play loads of things [03:37:26] I think you could probably figure that out by trying it yourself RhineBTV [03:37:52] Just chest two crafts to X orbit and compare the scan ranges [03:37:54] Eddi: I'm currently too busy with the Lizardmen liberating Ulthuan. [03:37:57] Well, I'm asking to see if anyone else has ever done it instead of trial and erroring it [03:38:16] I would lean to yes, but it depends on MM and if someone has set it properly [03:38:39] They'll have bigger range but also a higher electricity drain [03:39:25] i've only ever used tweakscale on wheezing jet engines to make them smaller, so they fit on mk0 tanks under the wings of my not-space planes [03:39:36] Eddi: Also, now that I think about it, I'd think the Japanese architectural styles (paper and cut timbers) would be pretty applicable to any future space dwelling civilization given that one could grow lots of trees in the before-mentioned behemoths. [03:39:43] Open concept living ahoy! [03:39:55] Why not just use the Juno engine which is already Mk0 size? [03:40:08] because it's not wheezing? [03:40:12] :D [03:40:21] i like the backwards toggle [03:40:32] It's still Koffing, it'll evolve eventually [03:41:01] i always put the direction toggle on the "R" key [03:41:10] thrust reverser is quite nice [03:41:13] Supercheese: Yeah, but doing so gives Koffing a tumor. [03:41:38] And, let's face it, the first gen poison-types weren't that good. [03:42:02] In fact . . . Anything other than psychic was fighting an uphill battle of minds. [03:42:31] I just used Magmar [03:42:41] Because Magmar is dope [03:44:53] Action: Scolar_Visari only now noticed the Kalpana 1 concept houses by Bryan Versteeg lacked bedroom *walls* http://www.nss.org/settlement/space/graphics/KalpanaIntC1000.jpg [03:45:00] RhineBTV: Go Alakazam or go home. [03:45:28] alakazam is pretty cool too [03:45:30] Or, better yet: Go Alakazam or go to the nearest Pokemon Center. Because you lost. [03:45:42] 6x Vaporeons! (Pok�mon Go was an accurate representation of 1st gen, right?) [03:45:50] but back in the day I think I rolled with butterfree and magmar for most of the game, playing casually as a kid, anyway [03:45:52] Psychic-types were ridiculously overpowered in the first game. [03:45:58] and gyrados, of course [03:46:14] RhineBTV: I wanna see someone beat the Elite 4 with only Magikarps. [03:46:30] I'm sure someone can, but I'm no pokemon afficionado [03:46:39] Last one I really played was like Gold/Silver I think [03:46:41] Magikrap [03:46:51] I played yellow [03:46:54] There's like 1000 pokemon now, it's ridiculous [03:46:56] I think the only actual offensive move they could ever learn was tackle, which was not going to do much because of their invariably low stats. [03:47:00] and I never finished it [03:47:02] RhineBTV: And counting! [03:47:16] it's not a bad game, but I lacked the time [03:47:26] ve2dmn: Monster Rancher 2 was better. [03:47:44] I'm gonna try this probesplus mod [03:47:55] Probesplusterous! [03:47:56] Seems like it puts the scansat parts into smaller packages, which is what I need [03:48:24] Trying to make my "scanning probe" subassembly that has all the parts for scanning all the things, but I want to do something different than my usual build [03:48:33] Which is normally just slapping everything radially on a fueltank [03:48:45] looks ugly as sin [03:48:49] Action: Scolar_Visari distinctly remembers it was possible in MR2 to get a cross between a velociraptor and a lobster. [03:49:01] I never played the MR games [03:49:04] Velobsteraptor [03:49:09] Hey here it is! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/monster-rancher/images/8/87/Crab_Saurian_MR2.png/revision/latest?cb=20160307070726 [03:49:16] RhineBTV: The first two were pretty sweet. [03:49:16] Nor Monster Hunter, even if it's a completely different genre [03:49:44] I did play Monsters in my Pocket, though [03:49:54] Monster Rancher 1 and 2 had the gim-er, feature of obtaining new monsters by reading non-game CDs with your Playstation. [03:50:08] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6EX52NMoq4 [03:50:08] YouTube - NES - Monsters in my pocket [03:50:18] IE: Putting in, ah, Red Hot Chili Peppers or something I guess would get you a monster unique to that particular disk. [03:50:31] Oh, I remember that [03:50:34] That's what that was [03:50:43] You could then not only fight with them, but also go on D&D esque adventures. [03:51:55] That was pretty innovative for the time [03:52:30] I want to say it'd be interesting to see it applied now, especially with how easy patches would be to apply, but so much media is digital that I think it'd be way too easy to game the system [03:52:33] It was also in GLORIOUS 3D! https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZrFZ9qgWIeY/maxresdefault.jpg [03:53:16] Looks more like 2�/3D [03:53:17] RhineBTV: Anymore and I'd think they'd go the Pokemon Go route and have players obtain new monsters via geohashes or whatever nonsense kids use these days. [03:53:50] blockchain! [03:53:57] oy gevalt [03:54:08] Pok�chain [03:54:17] Etherium kitties? [03:54:31] https://www.cryptokitties.co/ [03:54:55] Oh yeah, it also had robots! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/monster-rancher/images/f/f7/Henger.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160114092240 [03:56:15] You could also get robots cross bred with trees https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/monster-rancher/images/3/35/Automaton_MR2.png/revision/latest?cb=20160213204447 [03:57:02] Or a dragon! [04:00:14] Oh yeah, they also had a Monolith creature. [04:00:59] Because why not? http://www.vizzed.com/vizzedboard/retro/user_screenshots/saves0/1/PLAYSTATION--Monster%20Rancher%202_Oct24%2013_59_40.png [04:06:21] Action: Scolar_Visari goes off to reproduce Monols and convert Jupiter into a brown dwarf. [04:12:36] my career save is borked because just about anything I do in it causes a null reference exception on ��KerbalRoster.ValidateAssignments (.Game st) [04:20:58] https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/88bino/never_has_a_game_aged_so_well/ [04:36:33] oooooo, these probesplus parts are nice [04:36:48] and sorry bout the career save, man, I dunno much about trying to recover from that [04:41:08] what, crs-14 in 2.5 days [04:41:15] spacex is on a roll [04:54:23] is there any way to use the word filter in conjunction with part category? [05:09:24] maybe a mod like Filter Extensions? [05:22:52] well I mean moreso just for quick searching, not permanently removing parts from a category [05:23:42] like I installed the ProbesPlus mod and I wanted to browse just their parts but also know what category they're usually listed under [05:24:04] since the manufacturer filter removes all the categories and just puts all the parts in a single list [05:24:32] cool mod, btw [05:24:54] like some of these probe cores that have stack nodes but also has vacant space where you can tuck batteries and junk inside them [05:25:39] sure you can part clip stuff if you want, but I try to keep that within some sort of "reasonable" threshold [05:30:55] and a lot of em come with mini rcs thrusters on em, pretty coo' [05:31:54] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abOIImxD12Q neat (the bit after the watermellons) [05:32:03] flight related, so ksp gets it [06:18:01] tess is going up on a falcon 9? double win [08:20:49] Althego: No landing tho [08:21:21] afaik [08:25:33] they have to get rid of the old block models somehow :) [08:25:58] that reminds me, any update on tiangong reentry? [08:27:04] Action: taniwha takes note: paper airplanes can be dangerous [08:29:21] assassin tool: paper airplane. poke out eye [08:31:32] Althego: yep. its still comin down [08:31:42] lol that is not an update [08:31:54] i was hoping for a precision increase [08:32:10] probably they are not working on easter weekend [08:32:32] but this sounds dangerous, how wide the window is, it could fall on cities [08:33:17] Althego: precision is increasing but its coming with an overall increase in the time [08:33:44] like jumping to the right by hour(s) [08:33:58] esa and scott manly is from yesterday [08:34:15] Althego: 16:15 UTC +-9:00h [08:34:24] on the first still [08:35:06] Althego: perigee is now 168 km [08:36:55] Althego: apogee is 185 tho [08:37:18] somebody should send a kerbal and nudge it with the suit jets :) [08:39:25] Althego: only if they nudge it deeper into the atmosphere [08:39:33] down with tiangong [08:41:57] finally found predictions from today [08:42:16] seems to be late in the night on april [08:42:18] 1st [08:43:27] around 21-22 utc, +-10-11h [08:45:58] my predictions were from today too [08:46:36] or were from late last night [08:47:58] depends on what you mean today. i meant 32st [08:48:00] 31 [08:48:46] Althego: Langbroek is saying 21:15 +-11h [08:50:14] Althego: actually two predeictions [08:50:27] the other method says 22:05 [08:50:28] so [08:50:38] narrowing down on a time I suppose [10:36:33] hah, now that i think of it, i am safe from tiangong [10:36:37] too far north [10:50:04] oh that reminds me, I had a weird dream that Scott Manley and Dominik Diamond were on a pizza advert together [10:51:49] ... is a sentence nobody ever put in a "top 10 reasons how you know you watch too much youtube" list [10:52:05] hehe [10:52:16] i have never heard about domnik diamond [10:52:23] me neither [10:52:36] Has anyone played with Stationscience? [10:52:54] also i only ever watched like two scott manley videos ever [10:53:00] honestly sound like someone acting in adult videos :) [10:53:16] hah, kill the heretic [10:53:53] you spot the heretic because they wear pants. wait, wrong game. [10:59:16] holy crap I thought trying out UKS would be a walk in the park but I can't even get to Minmus without having to rethink my lander :S [11:00:15] Getting to Minmus is easy. Getting infrastructure to Minmus is not so easy. [11:00:27] taniwha my kerbals get homesick :/ [11:00:38] seems I need to add cupoles to extend something called habtime [11:01:04] the concept is believable, but the implementation leaves a lot to be desired [11:01:34] wait, these guys went to space expecting to come BACK?!? [11:01:39] https://78.media.tumblr.com/9f399f0c9ef1b84f22d25da18ca60aca/tumblr_o1mvo9aqaF1tpmgf1o1_540.jpg [11:01:43] Eddi|zuHause: pretty much [11:02:10] Daz, you can also under-crew the craft (say, 2 in a hitchhiker) to get better use out of the Kerbal-months. [11:02:11] and I suspect RoverDude never read Heinlein [11:02:16] Now I see what I'm missing in KSP. It would be fun to have a mission mode that tells you to build a Minmus base and keep your Kerbals happy so that the base will grow and grow. [11:02:17] fluburtur, you should open it with soldering iron [11:02:17] :P [11:02:17] or at least not his older stuff [11:02:29] Althego that could actually work [11:02:33] his characters /do/ get homesick, briefly [11:02:47] Pakaran so far my landers have all been 1.25 but it seems I'm going to have to go 2.5 now [11:03:07] (often, go on leave or such, return to Earth, decide it's not for them, return to space with nary a regret) [11:03:21] Daz, the hitchhiker has a big hab advantage over anything below the 90 science tier AFAIR. [11:03:22] Mat2ch: Surviving Minimus? [11:03:23] (and have things like mini missions: Transport 8 Kerbals back to Kerbin, because they're homesick) [11:03:23] I guess I'll toss on some construction ports so I can use it as a future base in case there's good stuff where I happen to land [11:03:27] Eddi|zuHause: :D [11:04:00] (except a few inflatable parts that nobody's going to use in a lander, and require a lot of mechanical parts and whatnot) [11:04:14] hah, new idea, convex earth [11:04:26] Mat2ch I think there's a contract pack like that? Used to be atleast last I played sometime around 1.1-1.2 [11:04:49] Pakaran didn't you say there was a youtuber who did series with uks? Mind throwing a name? [11:05:04] earth is obviously concave. why else would your shoes wear out at the front and the back? [11:05:27] they do? [11:05:40] they do [11:05:58] minmus surface back to kerbin, how many dV do I need? [11:06:11] i remember in once case the bottom broke in half because of repeated structural stress [11:06:12] generally about 20 more that i have [11:06:33] Daz: < 300m/s, I think [11:06:53] wow, I knew it was little but that's not a lot at all [11:07:16] I looked at my 1500dV escape craft and was like "yeah that might be a little much" :p [11:07:16] A kerbal can land from low minmus orbit, take off and return to kerbin on one pack of propellant [11:07:25] not a good plan since 1.0, though [11:07:47] (a kerbal has about 500m/s) [11:07:50] taniwha: bring a pocket heat shield. :D [11:08:45] can a kerbal assemble a heat shield and something to grab onto from KIS inventory? [11:09:58] daz, Justin Bright. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SWlQqPFMqc&index=1&list=PLNDuU-8x2Smxp0-_aFFvETgYOISCy1pJ1 [11:09:59] YouTube - Kerbal Space Program - Multiplanetary Species Episode 01 [11:09:59] ugh why is there no short 1.8->2.5 adapter -.- [11:10:51] anyway, you can get away with less dV, if you return to kerbin via mun encounter [11:11:13] took me a few tries though [11:11:25] in any case, total orbital velocity at Minmus' attitude is LOW. [11:13:40] Orbiting on RCS is pretty easy, yes :) [11:13:56] damnit I wish I had the bigger fairings earlier, it seems so weird they're high in the tech tree (running CTT, no idea where they're at in stock) [11:14:04] first time I went to Minmus, I brought plenty of fuel, and a lander based on a Terrier (I'd gone to the Mun in the same game). [11:14:11] Maybe 1.5 tonnes total lander mass tops.. [11:14:27] Forgot to thrust limit, ended up not so much wasting fuel as bouncing and wasting time. [11:15:28] hehe [11:15:53] I'm waiting for a fix for the landing legs in KSP. I don't want to land on the engines :P [11:16:06] you mean a philae-style landing? [11:16:18] Pakaran I'm using Ant engines in my build right now :p [11:16:27] Eddi|zuHause too soon :/ [11:16:40] well, it did better than me. I think it bounced once. [11:16:48] Just lost control and couldn't land at a good attitude. [11:17:39] I think "thrust limit to, at most, three times local TWR unless there's a reason not to" is going to be on my mental checklist for awhile. [11:18:45] i never really used thrust limiter [11:18:56] it is good for fine adjustments [11:19:10] also on solids [11:19:21] yeah, I'm not sure how I'd refine a reentry periapse without it (or using RCS) [11:19:32] you can achieve more delta v with limited solids because you dont wasate it to atmospheric drag [11:20:01] are there any mods which add decent solid second and thirdstages? [11:20:14] seems most just add boosters [11:20:26] Althego, yeah. I notice a BIG difference with the "classic first craft" in particular. [11:20:31] (trashcan, pod, chute) [11:21:35] in reality solids are rarely used as later stages [11:21:46] low isp [11:21:55] it is better to burn you low isp fuel first [11:22:22] I remember reading that some stock solid engines are actually on the low end of the ISPs possible on Earth. [11:22:47] ksp engines all have low isps [11:22:54] ok, maybe not the nuke and jets [11:23:01] for balance reasons [11:23:13] Liquid, though, there's liquid engines with TWR in the hundreds, and I think the ISP of liquid hydrogen is 4-digit. [11:23:34] rs-25 has somethin like 420 s [11:23:54] 450 in vacuum [11:24:24] going 4 digits you either have to go ions, or cheat with jets [11:24:33] ah. [11:25:01] because jets are simply cheating, they dont have that high exchaust velocity, they just take mass from the atmosphere [11:25:11] I'd assume it's possible to go a bit better by optimizing for vacuum though? [11:25:20] and oxygen has a BIG atomic mass, yep. [11:25:43] yes, probably, but not by much [11:26:11] most of that high isp comes from the hydrogen in the case of rs-25 [11:26:37] thus rockets tend to burn rich [11:26:47] get more H2 and CO [11:26:53] because of several reasons [11:27:02] runs slightly cooler, too [11:27:03] ah, I know some of the KSP nerfing is simply in the high dry mass of tanks [11:27:16] and is a reducing flame, which won't eat e.g. steel parts? [11:27:19] and high mass of the engines [11:27:22] one is the preburner, other is the cooling around the nozzle walls [11:27:43] and high mass of every other part [11:27:52] (eg, command pods) [11:27:58] yes, ksp things are really heavy [11:28:06] i hatethe 3 person command pod mass [11:28:11] it is excessively heavy [11:28:22] i take it only for looks or as a challenge [11:28:25] not when compared to the mk1 pod [11:28:41] when compared to the mk1 pod, it's actually a little light [11:28:54] but the mk1 pod is excessively massive [11:29:03] isnt that 0.86 t? [11:29:15] the mk1-3? or what isits name now is like4 t [11:29:17] 800kg is a lot for a shell [11:29:43] the mk1 is also based on the Mercury capsule. Which was really, really cramped. [11:30:02] what i dont understand, how 1-2-3 kerbals fit in the russian style capsule [11:30:06] Althego: 2.6t [11:30:10] (not including monoprop) [11:30:40] i should learn to remove monoprop in the VAB [11:30:40] 0.8t for the mk1 [11:31:05] i intentionally not remove monoprop [11:31:19] since the mk1-3 is effectively 2x the scale of the mk1, it /should/ be 8x as massive, not 3.25 [11:31:51] if you expect it to be a solid object. but it should be mostly empty space inside [11:32:05] (the mass of a pressure vessel scales directly with the volume it contains) [11:32:39] Althego: that's the intuitive thing, but reality is not always intuitive [11:32:43] but you dont need 3 times as much engineering parts for things that run it [11:32:43] the mass scaling of 8x assumes wall thickness also doubles [11:32:49] and all internal modules [11:32:50] because it needs to have enough tensile strength to hold the pressure on a wider cross section? [11:32:54] as the contained volume increases, so does the required thickness of the walls [11:33:20] Eddi|zuHause: the wall thickness must double too, or the walls will be too weak [11:33:30] to hold it structurally [11:33:32] That does make sense. [11:33:33] that sounds reasonalbe [11:33:45] both structurally and against the pressure [11:33:46] but does the wall makes most of its mass? [11:34:09] if it doesn't, then that might explain the < 8x [11:34:20] (3x the seats+controls) [11:34:42] 3xseat + 8xwall [11:35:11] here we go. Mercury had an on-orbit mass of 1,355 kg: http://braeunig.us/space/specs/mercury.htm [11:35:36] so scaled to Kerbals, that should be lighter than a mk1 pod. Maybe significantly lighter. [11:36:02] granted, you'd need the deorbit engine, heat shield, and very basic life support to be really equivalent [11:37:28] also not that even the mk3 capsule is lighter for 4 people [11:38:08] at least we got the 2 person capsule i always wanted [11:38:25] still no 3 person cockpit [11:38:34] i haven't actually played since 1.4 [11:38:52] also, gtg [11:38:54] me neither [11:39:04] i was somewhat sick, and also tired because of issues [11:39:19] yeah issues are the worst [11:39:28] rl issues [11:39:29] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_orbital_rocket_engines [11:39:37]